CK events for Scandinavia

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You are right about one thing, Vendelay...It´s a story..
I agree that there was an older village or city at Helgeandsholmen-Gamla Stan, but the oldest preserved charter was 1252, thus the celebrations this summer..

These type of events are rather "tricky", IMHO, because several of the swedish ones rely on uncertain sources..because of the fire in the Royal Castle (think it was in 1697), most of the swedish medieval letters was permanently lost.
In general it would be much more easy to reconstruct the events in Norway or Denmark because the sources are there..

 

[Vandelay]

I agree that there was an older village or city at Helgeandsholmen-Gamla Stan, but the oldest preserved charter was 1252, thus the celebrations this summer..

At the risk of coming across as pigheaded - I´m quite certain there´s no Stockholm charter from 1252. What there is is a letter from Birger Jarl written in Stockholm A.D 1252. The phrasing of the letter does not indicate whether Stockholm is a town or merely a Royal manor or castle. Stockholm town 1252 A.D is an inference not a fact. That being said, for the purpose of an event in CK 1252 is as good a trigger date as can be found , because as you said the Early Medieval period for Seden is orely lacking in written sources.

Cheers,
Vandelay

 

[Powerslave]

Originally posted by Wasa
Sigtuna was burned down by Estonian Vikings coming from Ösel (Saarema) in 1187, the same year they also burned Earl Jon of Askanäs (Ekerö)

True, they also killed the Archbishop Johan in his Castle at Stäket.

 

[Aetius]

Originally posted by Vandelay


At the risk of coming across as pigheaded - I´m quite certain there´s no Stockholm charter from 1252. What there is is a letter from Birger Jarl written in Stockholm A.D 1252. The phrasing of the letter does not indicate whether Stockholm is a town or merely a Royal manor or castle. Stockholm town 1252 A.D is an inference not a fact. That being said, for the purpose of an event in CK 1252 is as good a trigger date as can be found , because as you said the Early Medieval period for Seden is orely lacking in written sources.

Cheers,
Vandelay

What about simply making it a bit random, e.g during Birger Jarl's lifetime...

I am sure there was some sort of conference for where to place the swedish capital, I remember a contender was Skaenninge in Oestergoetland, any idea when this was?

 

[Vandelay]

What about simply making it a bit random, e.g during Birger Jarl's lifetime...

That sounds alright, but it should be probably be after Birger Jarl´s trading treaty with the Hansa (which is often seen instrumental in the founding of Stockholm). Perhaps the Hansa treaty Event could trigger the Stockholm Event?

BTW I don´t think Sweden should have a capital - the King and Royal Court did not have a permanent residence during the CK timeframe. Any word from Paradox if capitals will be handled differently than in EUII?

EDIT: The treaty with Hansa was made in 1251 and granted them exemption from tolls and the right to settle in Swedish towns.

Cheers,
Vandelay

 

[Idiotboy]

Originally posted by Aetius


What about simply making it a bit random, e.g during Birger Jarl's lifetime...

I am sure there was some sort of conference for where to place the swedish capital, I remember a contender was Skaenninge in Oestergoetland, any idea when this was?

I´ve never heard of anything like this. AFAIK Stockholm more or less evolved into the capital on basis of being the main city. Before the Kalmar union there was no capital per se and when Gustav I took power and we became truly independent again Stockholm was by far the most important city and more or less became the capital by default.

 

[Vandelay]

The only place where Skänninge figures during the reign of Birger Jarl his that a Papal delegate met with Birger there (among other thing this meeting enforced celibacy for Swedish priests - bummer...).

Stockholm was the most populuos and most important city of Sweden from the 1300´s but IMHO the concept of a national capital is anchronistic in CK timeperiod Sweden.

Cheers,
Vandelay

 

[Aetius]

I am not sure that it was during Birger Jarls time. Skaenninge was the center of trade in Oestergoetland at the time it was discussed,

 

[Norgesvenn]

What type of events are possible in CK?

The historical development from 1066 and onwards in Scandinavia was one of "state building", which meant centralising power into the hands of the church and royal councils. Capitals as such did not exist in 1066 (at least not in Norway), where the king travelled between different estates throughout the year.

Bergen became the first capital of Norway during the reign of Magnus Erlingsson (1167 or something), and he became the first king of Norway to be crowned by the archbishop. This represented the introduction of episcopal sanction of royalty. Unfortunately, this also led to later tension between the king and the church's authority (particularly during King Sverre I Sigurdsson (1178-1202)).

It's rather hard coming up with events when you hardly know the type of events possible.

 

[stibogis]

Suggested events for Norway

St Olav performs miracle shod be several of this during the whole period.

Build the Christchurch
Olav Kyrre (kyrre means peaceful) start building the Christchurch (Nidarosdomen)

Crusade to Sweden as Magnus Barefoot
Peace resulutment royal marriage whit Sweden Magnus marries the Swedish princess Margret.

1070
Bergen founded by Olav Kyrre.

1100-1200
Bergen did not become capital very early in the game the city grew and the kings stayed here longer. It became capitol gradually. Strong increase in the city inhabitants in Bergen and other Cities in Norway. Bergen was the biggest city in Scandinavia during this period. Copenhaven became larger when it became capital in the 15 century. But Bergen was bigger then Stockholm until the 16 century.

1093-98
Wars against Sweden and Denmark.

1098
War whit the jarls of Orkneys and Shetlands, man and Ireland. Sigurd Jorsalfare set to be duke of Man by the age of 10.

1102
War against Ireland. Magnus Barefoot dies.

Ca.1100 First bishopric
In Nidaros, Bergen, Oslo.

Ca.1100 First monastery

1108
Crusade to the holy land under Sigurd Jorsalfare. Returns whit much gold and jewlery, which he got, from the Eastern roman emperor.

1152-53
The archbishop in Nidaros (Trondheim)

1130-1227
The Civil wars

1163
First Norwegian king crowning in Nidaros.

1177-1202
Sverre Sigurdsons fights against the church.

1261
Norway becomes a kingdom that is inherited by the right first-born son or daughter of the dead monarch.
-Coronation in Bergen
-Coronation in Nidaros.

The 1270`s
The laws are written down ( landsloven )

The 1280`s
The Hanseatic League establishes in Norway

1300
The maid of Norway event
-Burn her on the stake at nordnes in Bergen.
-Let her go
-Make her queen of Norway. (This will change the royal line and a kalmar union will not happen for Norway. Adds event for Scotland to since Margrete is the only living successor after King Alexanders death.

In 1300 a young woman arrived Bergen from Lubeck. She sad that she was the dead princess Margarete that was supposed to have died during the travel to Scotland were she was to become queen over Scotland when she married the English king, but she is supposed to have died during the journey. But this woman sad that she had been sold bye the evil Ingebjørg Erlingsdatter.

1319
The male king line ends. Should not happen if you went whit make margarete queen.
The Scandinavian unions begins

1349-1350
The Black Death in Norway
Reaches Bergen in 1349 and some other places but spreads trough the rest of the country during the next year.
People living in Norway down whit 70%
From 650 000-800 000 to 70 000-200 000
Followed whit many smaller plages.

1350-1556
Agricultural crises and political lack of freedom. The Hanseatic League dominates the trade. Much of the Norwegian estates and places in the riksråd (Some sort of a parliament) is given to the Danes by the Danish king.

1388
Margrete made queen of Norway.
To alternatives perhaps one makes her queen and another finding another heir to the throne.

1397
Kalmarunion

15 century
Peasants revolts

 

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The events look good, but there might not ever be a Maid of Norway or Kalmer Union if you can control the dynasties, royal marriages etc.

 

[stibogis]

so i can diside whom the doughters and the sons of the kings are gonna marry?

 

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I would not like to see that the events of the union with Sweden and the Kalmar Union has to happen when you are playing one of the powers. Remember, they all happened as results of who the kings choosed to marry their daughters to.

As for civil wars, they should only come as results of your actions as a king. The game is about having a chance to change history instead of just repeating it. Also, don't bother mentioning king names and such long after the start of the game. Because from what I have heard, the names are random for the comps and you can choose your own names for your dynasty

However, at starting dates like 1187, parts of Norway should probably be in revolt, giving King Sverre (whom also should be a good commander considering he never lost to his opponnents) a hard time gaining full supremacy.

For the starting year 1337, when the union between Norway and Sweden had already happened, it should still be a possibility of breaking loose from the union, pherhaps with the Bjarkøy dynasty under Vidkunn Erlingsson or if done later with the Sudrheim dynasty by Sigurd Hafthorsson or even by the Losna dynasty under Erlend Eindridesson or Eindride Erlendsson.

Considering the fact that Norwegian armies were only led by kings (except a few nobles on some occations), these kings should gain some advantages in command to compensate for the lack of generals.
Let us say that the first born son of Olaf III (whom I presume is the starting king) has some bonus command points, concidering that Olaf's son was Magnus Barefoot. Also when starting with King Sverre in 1187, he should be an exellent commander. But of course, one should be able to "build" the commander into becoming good. Pherhaps the title for a general could be Jarl in the Scandinavian countries (at least Norway and Sweden)...

Another thing, it should not be made insane impossible for Norway to go on a crusade and actually be in the holyland before two years have passed, concidering Sigurd Jorsalfare went on a crusade, and concidering Norway uses longboats (which are fast transports) up until ca. 1300. Of course, the crusades should be events that happen on the exact dates as they are declared by the popes. I would actually like to see the computer players play as historical as possible with you making most of the changed to the alternate history, and then pherhaps the actions you made cause some of the AI players that are affected by your actions to change their course. So pherhaps many historical correct events like for example those stibogis are mentioning can be used in lands not controlled by yourself, just to direct the AI players into following a realistic behaviour.

1070
Bergen founded by Olav Kyrre.

Ain't that up to Olav Kyrre to decide? And shouldn't it also be up to Olav Kyrre if that "Kyrre" nickname will be apropriate for his reign (Kyrre means the Peacefull). Afterall, starting in 1066 playing as Norway, you will be Olav III and therefore able to decide how his reign shall be.

1130-1227
The Civil wars

What a terrible thing wouldn't it be if the civil wars could not be prevented, same dynasty fighting brothers against brothers. Well, it should pherhaps be in the settings for Norway before you start the game, civil war 1130 or not, and then birkebeiner (birchleg) rebellion in 1177- or not (thinking that it would be a little wierd with first a rebellion by Øyvind/Øystein Møyla and then by Sverre, pherhaps the rebellion by Møyla should then be just cut out in case there will be birkebeiner rebellions). However, unlike the civil war in Sweden, this will not be fought between different dynasties, but members of the same.

1349-1350
The Black Death in Norway
Reaches Bergen in 1349 and some other places but spreads trough the rest of the country during the next year.
People living in Norway down whit 70%
From 650 000-800 000 to 70 000-200 000
Followed whit many smaller plages.

Probably one of the only inevitable events, no matter what efforts the king may do. Though it was not that dramatic. More like 400 000 - 500 000 down to 200 000 - 250 000 or something (well, almost that dramatic, let's just say they can cut half our population for that nasty event).

 

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Arn Magnusson

Do not take this thread to seriously, becouse my question is just for fun.
I´ve been reading Jan Guillous books "Vägen till Jerusalem" and "Tempelriddaren" and I just wonder if the developers have found some inspiration in those books?

Will we discover some names or events from the books, for instance, like the name Arn Magnusson, or will the game strive to be as historical accurate as possible?

 

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Do not take this thread to seriously, becouse my question is just for fun.
I´ve been reading Jan Guillous books "Vägen till Jerusalem" and "Tempelriddaren" and I just wonder if the developers have found some inspiration in those books?

Will we discover some names or events from the books, for instance, like the name Arn Magnusson, or will the game strive to be as historical accurate as possible?

I hardly think we'll get an event for Arn Magnusson...

 

[Havard]

Do not take this thread to seriously, becouse my question is just for fun.
I´ve been reading Jan Guillous books "Vägen till Jerusalem" and "Tempelriddaren" and I just wonder if the developers have found some inspiration in those books?

Will we discover some names or events from the books, for instance, like the name Arn Magnusson, or will the game strive to be as historical accurate as possible?

I can assure you I will do anything within my powers to make sure that we don't get anything of that into the game

 

[Martinus]

I hope we will *at least* be able to found Prieure de Sion, marry a descendant of Christ and rule all of Europe from the capital in Jerusalem, with the help of templars, freemasons and rosicrucians. I mean, the game is supposed to be historically correct, right?

 

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Suggested events for Norway
1349-1350
The Black Death in Norway
Reaches Bergen in 1349 and some other places but spreads trough the rest of the country during the next year.
People living in Norway down whit 70%
From 650 000-800 000 to 70 000-200 000
Followed whit many smaller plages.

Don't look really realistic, those numbers.

 

[Nikolai]

Oh, but they are. It's difficult to say for sure, but while the rate for Europe as a whole is often said to be arond 50 %, Norway was much harder hit, and 70-75 % is the number most people go for.

 

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Well, what i read was 400'000 people in Norway prior to plague and loss rate during second half of XIV century closer to 25% than 33%. Say, 28% (Europe)