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Jinnai said:
Sheiks can give lands to new sheiks too. They'll just end up fracturing.
This would be solved if they could create titles...pretty please :twinkle with my eyes:Byakhiam said:Sheiks can give lands to new sheiks too. They'll just end up fracturing.
Lurken said:
Rather not, suppose the king of the Fatamids overruns Bohemia and creates the title king of Bohemia.
You are duke of Silesia, and conquer back all the provinces that belong to the default kingdom of Bohemia. But you can't create it, cause it belongs to the king of the Fatamids. So you then must also destroy the Fatamids and conquer Egypt before you will be able to become king of Bohemia.
And no christian would ever acknowledge a muslim king of Bohemia, so a christian who controlls all the lands of the kingdom of Bohemia would simply call himself king of Bohemia and he wouldn't give a damn about a Egyptian muslim who says he is the rightfull king.
Muslims creating titles should only be possible if the christians/muslims/pagans could create different titles for the same area. A thing that the developers must have thaught about, looking at the provinces.csv file.
Veldmaarschalk: So very true, what I meant was to enable the muslims to create parallell titles, as suggested in provinces.csv
Lurken said:
I don't think it's going to happen in CK, since that was clearly thought about, but then scrapped, when coding time was yet plentiful(?).
Yes, but we end up with an endgame with only mongols as non-sheiks and every other muslim as sheiks then.Byakhiam said:Sheiks can give lands to new sheiks too. They'll just end up fracturing.
HOWEVER, how about allowing the creating of fantasy kingdom titles (Mauritania, Persia, Egypt, Arabia et.c.) for muslims when a sufficient amount of high-tier muslim titles are gone and the land is owned by an independent sheik?Byakhiam said:
(provided that the title doesn't already exist, of course)
Something along the lines of "if none of these title combinations exist, the ruler is a muslim, the ruler is a count, the ruler is independent, the capital is in country area X and corresponding kingdom title X does not exist, then create independent muslim country".Lurken said:
Okey, Sounds good, since I have clue at all at CK event scriptningThe Phoenix said:
Popping up new muslim kingdom titles doesn't really work that well, since they'll be just one province entities and unless we use creatable kingdom titles (bad!), they won't get any pledging either.
But can't the muslims that have no liege in a designated area, get an event to join in under the new king, when the new kingdom is created?Byakhiam said:
What's so bad with giving them a kingdom-level fantasy title (as in "Christian fantasy"; it would be the same tags as Christian realms would use)?Byakhiam said:
Lurken said:
No event command for that. Vasallization cannot be caused by events, only independence.
The Phoenix said:
The reason why we strongly try to avoid using titles creatable by christians in scenarios, that it's very annoying for players if a title is "taken" by muslims and you cannot create it until you hunt this muslim realm down. Not very realistic either. Also, it is rather difficult and CPU intensive to make events that check that "sufficient number" of independent sheiks exist in certain area. Far better thing, if you'd start using christian creatable titles in muslim use, would be to just allow muslims create titles like christians.
Given the limitations specified (specific titles, limited to specific areas, under specific circumstances), I don't see it becoming a serious issue.Byakhiam said:
a) there would be no checking for "sufficient number of independent sheiks", just for independent sheikdom and lack of any of the "starting" muslim realms.
b) This solution would not cause as much problems as creatable titles would, given the limitations suggested.
(things would be so much easier, though, if "usurp title" destroyed the usurped title for the current holder...)
The Phoenix said:
It might not be serious issue most of the time, but sometimes it may become serious headache. Especially since it involves kingdom titles, which are by their very nature more scarce than duke titles.
The Phoenix said:a) there would be no checking for "sufficient number of independent sheiks", just for independent sheikdom and lack of any of the "starting" muslim realms.
b) This solution would not cause as much problems as creatable titles would, given the limitations suggested.
A) So a lonely sheikdom in Egypt otherwise divided up by France and Germany could create the sultanate of Egypt?
B) No, but in terms of gameplay sensibility and CPU conservation, it would be much easier to just have 'em muslims create titles.
The Phoenix said:
Ye, but CK2 I bet.
ANy clues why the usurpation didn't work as it did in in history? Since you can't track titles to characters?Byakhiam said:Ye, but CK2 I bet.
Since it only gives a claim, while it should really give you the title.Captain Frakas said: