Civilization Universalis

[DSYoungEsq]

Reading the threads regarding cultural conversion, addition of cores, what rules to change in EU, etc., has lead me to realize that there is a game out there just aching to be made.

No, not Europa Universalis III.



What is really in demand is what I will call Civilization® Universalis. That is, a game using the economic, diplomatic and military model of EU, but which allows for the creation of random maps and has as its ultimate goal world domination by the nation you play.


Frankly, let's admit it. Many of the things that are continually suggested for "improving" EU are simply not doable in a game that maintains the historical viewpoint that is the foundation of the whole concept. For example, it might be nice to be able to have a game that deals with an ahistorically expanding Mecklemburg, but just exactly HOW is the game supposed to do that? How can the creators attempt to forsee every possible direction that every nation allowable can go, and script accordingly? If Scotland swallows England, what happens to the English events? Who decides? If the game assumes a random character thereafter, is it really the same experience as playing England historically?

So here is the hypothesis: before anyone bothers with EUIII, Paradox should team up with Firaxis and produce an amalgam: Civilization Universalis.

Debate. Add commentary. Enjoy fantasizing.

 

[qvcatullus]

Ummmm...

Game balance.
filling up the world with minor nations that are important enough to care about.
randomly generating 'flavor' and other events.

I think the game would make me hurt inside.

 

[Galleblære]

Well, it could be duable in EUII. Have some 50+ nations scattered around at their historical startpoints. However, give every nation cores on every province in the world, put 'em all in the latin tech group (100 whiteman for americans), kill all the historic events (and random events if needed), but all the diplo sliders at the same positions, create one set of AI file for all the nations to promote world conquest and worldwide colonization.

Hopefully they will only colonize nearby provinces first though. Heck, give 'em a tech boost at the stat as well to kick things off!

The "no time limit" patch could be used to allow play beyond 1820.

 

[tombom]

There is actually something in uploads which is a scenario based on this.

And you'll need to explain this a bit more, I don't really get it...

 

[DSYoungEsq]

The main trouble with implementing the concept under the EU engine is that you can't (yet; we await inferis and Wisk with bated breath) randomly create a new world, so that the attempt to colonize is truly a shot in the dark, an attempt to explore the unknown. It is this aspect that energizes the Civilization franchise; every game is a new game, strategy and tactics end up dictated to some extent upon where you are, what is around you, and who you run into when.

 

[tombom]

The main trouble with implementing the concept under the EU engine is that you can't (yet; we await inferis and Wisk with bated breath) randomly create a new world, so that the attempt to colonize is truly a shot in the dark, an attempt to explore the unknown. It is this aspect that energizes the Civilization franchise; every game is a new game, strategy and tactics end up dictated to some extent upon where you are, what is around you, and who you run into when.

You could implement this by using the Random Scenario Generator.

 

[unmerged(14689)]

Well, I would like to see something like this. Now you already know when Prostantism hits and you also know where, as Spain you know where the sugar and gold provs are, you know when bad events will hit and how, if possible, to avoid them. Not that much fun.

I would like to have an option to play a fantasy-scenario, but not like the one we have now (all that colonizing only to have 100 years of possible wars after you've made contact is quite uninteresting IMHO). Instead, I'd like to see random maps (so that I don't know that sailing to the west will net me a very nice profit) and if that isn't possible than at least random nations and random goods in each province. This would make you have to really explore to find wealthy provs and would also make diplomacy a lot more fun, because you don't know just yet which nation will be the next BWB... Also, Protestantism gripping Italy and Spain, while the King of Sweden rides south to whipe out the heretics might be kinda cool.

 

[Hive]

Oh the horror!

 

[Old Joe]

oh Rakanidju! you guys need to make your own country in some fantasy 1558 RPG and drive it anyhow ahistorical you want, send spanish colnists in siberia, making papal states protestantic, convert ottomans in confuzianism, and mecklenburg should certanlly be dominating allover resta europe :wacko:

 

[DSYoungEsq]

You could implement this by using the Random Scenario Generator.

oh Rakanidju! you guys need to make your own country in some fantasy 1558 RPG and drive it anyhow ahistorical you want, send spanish colnists in siberia, making papal states protestantic, convert ottomans in confuzianism, and mecklenburg should certanlly be dominating allover resta europe

The essential element missing here is random geography. I KNOW where North America is, even if I don't know that Roanoke is a tobacco province.

I'm also going to share that one of the things I don't like about the Civilization franchise is that it has extremely poor economic modeling, even in the most recent iteration of the game. The closest to something fun came from the otherwise abysmal Civilization - Call to Power. EU has a very fun economic model, as well as a great diplomacy model. That's why I spend more than 80% of my time working in EU (when the new Sims 2 isn't distracting me).

 

[|AXiN|]

Now you already know when Prostantism hits and you also know where

Alun's Reformation mod fixes this quite admirably.

 

[unmerged(10894)]

Sounds cool although I still want EU3.

 

[unmerged(23319)]

A solution from the past

If you want a game with a relatively in-depth economy and military, combined with random exploration with still a sop to historical accuracy, your best bet is the Imperialism series.

You can find decent overviews of each game here:

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/imperialism/index.html?q=imperialism

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/imperialism2theageoe/index.html?q=imperialism

Granted, the games is a bit dated (they came out in 1997 and 1999) but just to give you some perspective, when I played Victoria for the first time I thought to myself "wow, someone did a good job cleaning up the Imperialism series and repackaging it".

The second one would probably be particularly well received by EU2 fans, since its set between 1500 and 1820. The game incorporates the western half of Europe (England, Spain, Portugal, Holland, Sweden and France are playable) and an explorable "New World" selected from about 1000 different maps. You develop your home country by improving farms, building roads and ports, mining, etc. You have a set of about 10 different unit types that improve over the course of the game (light infantry, horse artillery, hussars, grenadiers, etc).

So for those of you looking for a similar experience as EU2 but want something a bit more in-depth and a little less deterministic, its definitely worth the look.

 

[Castellon]

Imperialsim, still one of my all time favs!

The thing I loved about it was the cetral management and production.
Enevetiably games like CIV break down in the end because micromanaging 100 or more cities takes an hour a turn of pure boredom. Imperialism gather all the production to one province. Much nicer from a gameplay perspective. Both methods sacrifice some elements of realism, but I think this is worth it for game play.

Now back to topic so some mean Mod does not come along and move this to OT.

EU2 manages a nice middle ground between these camps. If you have a huge empire it is still sometimes tedious to make sure all your provinces have upgraded Forts, mayors and tax collectors ... and troops can be raised in most of your provinces to varing degrees, But there are not as many per province improvements that simply must be done.

 

[kurtbrian]

Now back to topic so some mean Mod does not come along and move this to OT.

Yeah, we wouldn't want one of them nazi mods to come here and be all high and mighty like, now would we....

anyways up untill EUI + EUII imperialism was my favorite empirebuilding game.

But now its only EUII for me, its so simple yet so complex, in just the right amount for me.

 

[unmerged(25609)]

That would make exploration a lot of fun. It could also lead to amazing new wars / struggles for dominance in areas that have been alrgely ignored, up to now. But I have no idea how you could program the AI to do a half-decent job. As it is now, Portugal, for example, will inevitably discover Brazil, and eventually go to war with Zimbabwe. If Brazil wasn't there, and if the continents have all moved, where would the AI send Portuguese explorers / settlers?

 

[Armandeus]

My Two Cents

If there is going to be a random non-Earth map, like in Civilization, I think there should also be random cultures, religions, and nations. I don't want to see Portugal, Spain, and France in a non-Earth random setting - not only is it odd, but it would be more interesting not to know the attributes of your rival nations as well. There should be regional similarities among neighboring nations, but everything should be randomized, including historical events.
I played Imperialism and Imperialism II. They are very simplified games, but they are good. I stopped playing Imperialism II because of a bug in the game (something to do with railroads, trade routes, and colonies; I forgot what it was).
A game like this would seem to be nothing more than a EU2 modification, but if Paradox were to create this type of game with a longer "historical" period of play in mind, it might be worth having as a separate game. If this "Civilization Universalis" started in the medieval era and ended in the modern era it would be very interesting. I think it might be less work to do an entirely randomized game of this scope than it would to create all the historical events needed to simulate real world history spanning the era from Crusader Kings to Hearts of Iron. If the game was easy to mod, then players could create scenarios (based on real world history or not).

 

[unmerged(2695)]

Universalis

Given the limitations of the EU engine a random map may be impossible. But a simulaiton of world history from the beginning would be welcome. But it woudl mean that Paradox had no more new games to sell - leading to the company closing down and no new patches.

 

[unmerged(28747)]

I want a combination of Rome: Total War (can play out battles), Civilization (custom maps, cultures, etc.) And Europa Universalis 2 (though perhaps a bit more "fluid" in terms of provinces, like Civilization). Though I'm a realistic guy...

Paradox, I give you one year :rofl:

 

[unmerged(34790)]

would it be possible to add new tech era's??... like putting in a tech era before and after the already ingame era's... maybe cut down the number of nations so colonization would be possible in europe as well.... could the game be made to start earlier... like before BC??