City Size vs zoning and road networks

[huskereurocat]

From what I have seen this is a very ascetically pleasing game. I was curious about something though. In the videos of this game it would seem that there are large zones of industrial, commercial and residential, sizable transport networks including airports, trains, ships and metro lines. The population that I saw was only 25,000 residents. This seems very small considering all the infrastructure to support the city. Was this purely to let everyone see what can be done? If not, that would be a little unrealistic. I don't know of any city with only 25K that has the infrastructure that I saw. I would think that would be serious overkill.
Thoughts!!

 

[hert]

Its a game, don't get why people get so upset when the population is "misrepresented" or towns are not ultra realistic.

 

[cd concept]

Its a game, don't get why people get so upset when the population is "misrepresented" or towns are not ultra realistic.

A good percentage of the people playing this game are adult's. And they are looking for a realistic builder's game that mimics the real world in a scaled model way. That can offer real life challenges of moments that occur in the city every day.

 

[hert]

A good percentage of the people playing this game are adult's. And they are looking for a realistic builder's game that mimics the real world in a scaled model way. That can offer real life challenges of moments that occur in the city every day.

Then they should go invest in some engineering software, because there expectations of a 1:1 real world experience will never happen. And seeing as your an all encompassing mayor who can terraform, lay roads, zone, plop down services/buildings and more, I see that as a game. Being a real mayor in a city where everything has to be approved by committees and taxpayers would be a real boring game.

 

[Engioc]

Personally I am glad to see the smaller population. CO have stated the game will sim 1 million real people, rather than the normal inflated pops of older games. Having 1 million real people in a city is far more interesting than just having a big number that says you have 20 million people which mostly don't really exist in your game.

So its something I applaud and hope they wont buckle and end up with inflated numbers just because people cant cope with a smaller number. I take your point about wanting to simulate a real city, but to me if you want that then you need real people to sim and follow around your city, not just an inflated number like SC2013 and older games. That's 1 million people you can follow around and watch them live their lives, rather than just being a number on your stats.

 

[medopu]

personally i am glad to see the smaller population. Co have stated the game will sim 1 million real people, rather than the normal inflated pops of older games. Having 1 million real people in a city is far more interesting than just having a big number that says you have 20 million people which mostly don't really exist in your game.

So its something i applaud and hope they wont buckle and end up with inflated numbers just because people cant cope with a smaller number. I take your point about wanting to simulate a real city, but to me if you want that then you need real people to sim and follow around your city, not just an inflated number like sc2013 and older games. That's 1 million people you can follow around and watch them live their lives, rather than just being a number on your stats.

i love you!!! This!!!! So much this!!!!

 

[huskereurocat]

WOW! Didn't expect such negativity from the group. In all the other simulations that I have played realism was the issue. I have to agree with cd concepts interpretation of this. I would imagine that a great number of players are looking for realism in their simulations or else the forums for all the other games would not be flooded with that idea. I am not disagreeing with unrealism or fantasy, but if all we want is a game, then we should be happy with other sim products instead of slamming them for not being real. I don't think anyone is looking for inflated populations here. There are those of us that enjoy (also known as fun) fixing the issues that are presented by a large city like New York, Chicago, Houston (sorry for the places mentioned, I happen to live in the US) which have millions of residents, in a realistic fashion, a scenario that we as the boss get to make the decisions. Saying that we should just go invest in some engineering software and have to deal with a board of directors is slightly jaded toward a purely gaming concept. We understand it is just a game and those that want just a game, that is fine as well. I was just asking a question not trying to illicit a debate on what is right and wrong.

 

[medopu]

WOW! Didn't expect such negativity from the group. In all the other simulations that I have played realism was the issue. I have to agree with cd concepts interpretation of this. I would imagine that a great number of players are looking for realism in their simulations or else the forums for all the other games would not be flooded with that idea. I am not disagreeing with unrealism or fantasy, but if all we want is a game, then we should be happy with other sim products instead of slamming them for not being real. I don't think anyone is looking for inflated populations here. There are those of us that enjoy (also known as fun) fixing the issues that are presented by a large city like New York, Chicago, Houston (sorry for the places mentioned, I happen to live in the US) which have millions of residents, in a realistic fashion, a scenario that we as the boss get to make the decisions. Saying that we should just go invest in some engineering software and have to deal with a board of directors is slightly jaded toward a purely gaming concept. We understand it is just a game and those that want just a game, that is fine as well. I was just asking a question not trying to illicit a debate on what is right and wrong.

well look, the deal is this.
This game is a city-builder. Just like simcity genre. The whole point of it is, that you start building from scratch. With 0 population and 0 infrastructure.

Okay, so if this game were to follow all realistic guide-lines for creating a realistic city, we're stuck from the get-go, because we're limited by mapsize. It's only 10x10 kilometres big. It can realistically only handle about 100,000 people tops.
But let's just assume that we had unlimited map-size to build on. Do you know how long it would take to build a metropolis like NY, Chicago, Sanfranc.? You wouldn't want to know.
The majority of city-building gamers play the game for an hour or two a day. And this majority would need weeks and months to be able to recreate a realistic metropolis.

Yes. a 25,000 inhabitants large town cannot hold an airport, but it's a compromise, because otherwise, 99% of people would never see airports, harbours, expressways,.... Game would be really boring to play this way.

Besides, you can always limit yourself from building big infrastructure in small cities. I for example never build heavy infrastructure for a small town, and I like it this way. But for casual players, i say let them enjoy the game. Let them have fun and build a few airports and trainstations in a 10,000 city. It's not holding me down at all.

It all comes down to each persons playing style.

 

[cd concept]

I was watching the latest development in City skyline on YouTube. Looking at the how many apartments and office buildings there were. The population should be more than 25000. You would be surprised on how many people can live in an apartment building or work in an office building or factory. Here's an eg. a 10 storey apartment times 10 apartment units equals 100 units times an average of 3 to 4 people per unit. Is about 3 to 4 hundred people. With all those apartments, offices and factories around. The population should be more if they utilize the spaces right for each building.
I have to agree with the person who made this thread. The population should be at 40 to 60 thousand people.
Depending on the density of 10 by 10 km. Yes the map will handle 60 to 100 thousand people. If there's more high rises the population should rise tremendously if the apartment units are accounted for properly.

 

[Chaapa]

CO have always counted the inhabitants of their cities oddly. Goes for both CiM and CiM2 and I expect nothing else in CS.

Also I agree with you (and cd concept). Specifically on the part that realism is most pivotal to a city builder. A city of say 25k citizens shouldn't have a tube line, and it won't be how I play the game. However since there are loads of people playing games like these, I guess one always have to sacrifice difficulty and realism in order to please those who aren't capable of advancing a game without it being easily done.

 

[medopu]

I was watching the latest development in City skyline on YouTube. Looking at the how many apartments and office buildings there were. The population should be more than 25000. You would be surprised on how many people can live in an apartment building or work in an office building or factory. Here's an eg. a 10 storey apartment times 10 apartment units equals 100 units times an average of 3 to 4 people per unit. Is about 3 to 4 hundred people. With all those apartments, offices and factories around. The population should be more if they utilize the spaces right for each building.
I have to agree with the person who made this thread. The population should be at 40 to 60 thousand people.
Depending on the density of 10 by 10 km. Yes the map will handle 60 to 100 thousand people. If there's more high rises the population should rise tremendously if the apartment units are accounted for properly.

ok we're arguing over nonsense. There are absolutely no fundamental differences between a city of 25.000 people and a city of 40.000 people. They're both small.

What has your apartment size estimation have to do with this thread topic exactly? It's ok to guesstimate but shouldn't we wait for game to release to see how much these apartments really can hold?

I'm also all for realistic apartment pop. limits, but if anything for me, i'm more willing to take a deflated number of residents than inflated number of residents any day. It's easier imagining 1 person or 0 people living in a unit than 10 or 100.

That's just my taste of realism. And besides, if anything, this is the easiest thing to mod. Once the game comes out, you can edit the building file to hold as many people as you wish. I've done this in SC4 with its ridiculous 1000-2000 people apartments.

 

[Engioc]

WOW! Didn't expect such negativity from the group. In all the other simulations that I have played realism was the issue. I have to agree with cd concepts interpretation of this. I would imagine that a great number of players are looking for realism in their simulations or else the forums for all the other games would not be flooded with that idea. I am not disagreeing with unrealism or fantasy, but if all we want is a game, then we should be happy with other sim products instead of slamming them for not being real. I don't think anyone is looking for inflated populations here. There are those of us that enjoy (also known as fun) fixing the issues that are presented by a large city like New York, Chicago, Houston (sorry for the places mentioned, I happen to live in the US) which have millions of residents, in a realistic fashion, a scenario that we as the boss get to make the decisions. Saying that we should just go invest in some engineering software and have to deal with a board of directors is slightly jaded toward a purely gaming concept. We understand it is just a game and those that want just a game, that is fine as well. I was just asking a question not trying to illicit a debate on what is right and wrong.

Don't worry mate your view is welcome and I do totally understand the arguments for larger pop limits and bigger maps . I love games like Tropico because to me it is about something simpler than SC, its not about the huge pops or huge maps........but SimCity, CXL, and now CSL are all about the ability to create a huge metropolis with millions of people in it. So I'm not really against anyone that wants to see a larger pop or bigger map, just not sure its practical for CO to do that if they really intend on tracking every person in that city. I guess with CSL it will be interesting to see how it all plays in the end, if the pop ends up feeling too small or not. For me one of the things I did really like about SC2013 is those busy roads, the city really is full of life and hoping that will be the case in CSL, I know we won't see all those 1 million people at the same time, so hope the roads will still look nice a busy in the CBD like areas.

 

[cd concept]

If every person is accounted for so should the places they live in. Usually apartments hold an average of one to three people. From a single batchlar to a family of three a husband and wife plus a child or maybe two.
The point I'm making is every building that is created should have the stats on how many people it can hold. If a single family home has three bedrooms. Than it should have an average of three to five people in it. Apartment buildings should show how many apartment units there are per floor and how many bedrooms there are per unit. The more bedrooms there a family of three to four could occupy it .if its a batchlar unit one to two
people could occupy it.
This is a good way of keeping an accurate score on the population for collecting taxes on infrastructures like schools hospitals fire stations etc.
If would make the game more fulfilling and realistic.

 

[medopu]

If every person is accounted for so should the places they live in. Usually apartments hold an average of one to three people. From a single batchlar to a family of three a husband and wife plus a child or maybe two.
The point I'm making is every building that is created should have the stats on how many people it can hold. If a single family home has three bedrooms. Than it should have an average of three to five people in it. Apartment buildings should show how many apartment units there are per floor and how many bedrooms there are per unit. The more bedrooms there a family of three to four could occupy it .if its a batchlar unit one to two
people could occupy it.
This is a good way of keeping an accurate score on the population for collecting taxes on infrastructures like schools hospitals fire stations etc.
If would make the game more fulfilling and realistic.

what are you arguing for exactly and more importantly, who are you arguing against? I have hard time following your thought. It's as if you think someone disagrees with your main point.

 

[Zarine]

If every person is accounted for so should the places they live in. Usually apartments hold an average of one to three people. From a single batchlar to a family of three a husband and wife plus a child or maybe two.
The point I'm making is every building that is created should have the stats on how many people it can hold. If a single family home has three bedrooms. Than it should have an average of three to five people in it. Apartment buildings should show how many apartment units there are per floor and how many bedrooms there are per unit. The more bedrooms there a family of three to four could occupy it .if its a batchlar unit one to two
people could occupy it.
This is a good way of keeping an accurate score on the population for collecting taxes on infrastructures like schools hospitals fire stations etc.
If would make the game more fulfilling and realistic.

If I understand correctly, what you want is somewhere near what can be seen in this stream @1:13:40. A residence with 3 households, 6 seniors, 2 young adult and 1 teen.
There is no information about how many beds... but if you know a little bit about real life, you should know that some familly have like 4 people per bed in some cases. So I'm ok not to have bed count per building but only household count.

 

[cd concept]

what are you arguing for exactly and more importantly, who are you arguing against? I have hard time following your thought. It's as if you think someone disagrees with your main point.

From the beginning of this posting I've always talked about accurate population count. Showing an example on how to make the census more accurate is just my opinion. If this is one of the first time a builder's game is accounting for every person. I think they should go all the way in identifying their connection with the home and work place etc. I think paying more attention to each building's layout capacities is important for true accuracy in census count.
I truly believe it will be quite interesting to see people fill the vacancy of an apartment building or a work place etc! An unemployment or immigration office mod would be interesting in keeping stats on things. Of course the computer will take care of that . thanks!

 

[karolans]

Airports are much more common than you guys probably think, small ones are actually spread out in all kinds of places with low population (and the airports in this game are small, which actually makes a lot of sense). Same goes for trains, even tiny villages tend to have a train station, hell, they are actually built around railway tracks in the first place for practical reasons. Of course not all trains have to stop there. You being able to build a subway network in a 10k town doesn't mean the game is unrealistic, it just means you like to waste money (which many real life mayors actually do, just usually on other things than public transport) .

 

[huskereurocat]

The only thing that I was thinking when I started this thread was whether (like in the videos) you had to have all the methods of transportation to have a manageable traffic flow in a town of 25K or not. If, in fact, you do have to have all those methods of transport it would seem a little unrealistic to me. Some of the other sim products out there get very congested very fast. That being said, the developers of the game can do what ever they wish to do. I was just asking a question, and from the responses given I would say there is a lot of support for realism and fantasy.
To each his own on the way that you like to play the game. That, I would assume, is why there is a plethora of city-building sim games out there to be purchased.