Cities Skylines traffic lights...

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FabbiS

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Hi,

I was pretty happy when I saw this new title and looking forward to it,

I do hope the traffic lights actual work on crossings like in CIM 2 or even better.

These maps look huge.

This is what I wanted for years.

Kind regards,

Fabbi
 

Inge Jones

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Yes, please give us some way to influence where and when pedestrians will cross. I know in real life some pedestrians will always be a nuisance and decide to cross the road in the wrong place or the wrong time, and if there are no safe crossings pedestrians will of course just have cross in random places. But I would like to see the game give some weighting to using a crossing as intended. I think this can be accomplished by applying "routing penalties" to crossing busy roads or large roads which are the equivalent of up to 50 meters walk to and from the crossing per lane.
 

Svip

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I know I have expressed an opposing view to micromanagement, but I would love a traffic light cycle management. Where each junction's traffic lights can be managed if one road needs preferences over the other. And that per default traffic lights are given higher priority to larger roads than smaller ones (i.e. the time they get). It should also be possible to remove a traffic light entirely (or place one) on a junction which per default has one (or doesn't have one).

Also, can someone English speaking explain the difference between an 'intersection' and a 'junction'?
 

medopu

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Also, can someone English speaking explain the difference between an 'intersection' and a 'junction'?

An intersection is where two roads (or streets) cross each other, like a small t. A junction is where one road (or street) meets another, but they do not have to cross each other, like a big T. A junction can be both a junction and an intersection. The word junction is usually reserved for places where roads meet in rural areas.
 

Svip

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Expanding further on my idea, I have made some mockups to explain my idea (warning: these are crappy ugly, because I am just on my laptop).

wv4x5Ag.png


In the upper right corner, you can see the intersection you've selected. The lanes highlighted are used for the pattern below.

Below you can see the light cycle, a greyed out (or less coloured) rectangles indicate how it repeats itself through the future. I imagine that the rectangles can be dragged to change their size. Or some other way to select the pattern.

rHfJjlB.png


Here several traffic lights are selected. Imagine the traffic lights being on the same avenue and you want to sync them. Simply select them all, click sync, their pattern becomes the same and they are reset to the beginning of each pattern.

2wsOCP6.png


This is where it gets advanced. Two lanes have been turned into left turn lanes, and they are now given their own pattern object. You would also be able to only select one lane, if you have a place where people are primarily making left turns.
 

Lakenstaken

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I think there might be a chance, Cities in motion 2 had some micromanagement, a bit too much if you ask me.

But it's never too much if you can turn on auto-management, as long as we're not forced to do it manually. The more options the better.
 

Svip

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What I would like is a traffic analysis tool that tell you traffic issues. Like where traffic flows and whether that traffic flow is correctly compensated for by traffic lights. Using some general tools, you will quickly be able to spot what junctions might need a manual configuration. The idea being, that only troubled junctions will require your attention.

Some large avenues may need to have a traffic light system that is synced so they are all green at the same time to help the traffic flow, which will require manual control but for all of them at once. I imagine simply selecting the entire avenue and doing this.

My last example for designating specific lanes and giving them their own pattern part is merely a luxury to have feature. I consider this to be of least priority as a development element. It creates a whole new layer of micromanagement, but I do like the idea of being able to create two left turn lanes, if a junction has a lot of that.
 

Sotrax

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Svip I love your idea of traffic management. I wish we had this in CiM2. In a City that I have to plan and develop traffic control is necessary, and you way is the best I could propably imagine!
 

slornie

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Definitely would like to be able to have extra control over junctions as an optional micromanagement feature. Ideally this would include being able to change the light phases and timings, changing lane settings (e.g. whether lanes are used for left/right/straight on etc), and whether it is traffic light controlled or not. Please can we also be able to allow only right-turns on/off to reduce conflicting traffic movements (particularly on avenues, but smaller roads too).

Oh, roundabouts too! Instead of the CiM2 workaround (building a circular one-way road) I'd like to be able to actually build/change a regular intersection into a roundabout/mini-roundabout.
 

C40LFR

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The current Traffic/Highway model in CiM2 is the best in the industry right now, but adding a little traffic engineering into the mix will make it 10 times better.

Also, as a transportation nut and future transportation engineer, I have to disagree about CiM2 having too much micromanagement. People complain about things like having to click every stop when making a new route, for example, but that is precisely what makes it an excellent simulation. Other than aesthetics, I seriously don't get why people like CiM1 over CiM2 so much.

Svip:

Excellent graphic, though pedestrians make it a little more complicated. CO would have to make it so that depending on the width of the street, the through movements would have minimum green time for people to cross the street. Then there is T-intersections, where one street has only left or right turn traffic movements with conflicting pedestrians. Pedestrian phase control is also really important when talking about transfer points. I suspect this why CO just used a single dedicated Ped phase for all crossings, which for practical purposes, is fine if they leave it that way in future games.
 
Last edited:

Svip

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Excellent graphic, though pedestrians make it a little more complicated. CO would have to make it so that depending on the width of the street, the through movements would have minimum green time for people to cross the street. Then there is T-intersections, where one street has only left or right turn traffic movements with conflicting pedestrians. Pedestrian phase control is also really important when talking about transfer points. I suspect this why CO just used a single dedicated Ped phase for all crossings, which for practical purposes, is fine if they leave it that way in future games.

Well, you could tie the pedestrian crossings to pattern numbers. The most important aspect is to keep this system simple. Both engine wise and UI wise. For instance, overlapping traffic lights would not possible. I know several lights (in real life) where one starts before another ends, this is too complicated to have in the game.

The pattern number system also help with junctions with more than 4 roads meeting, where the third 'wheel' road could be assigned the number 3 and get its own time.

I am also wondering whether the same lanes/pedestrian crossings should be allowed in more than one pattern number. For instance, you might want to keep traffic flowing forward and to the left, while the opposing traffic is stopped, but you also want the opposing traffic flowing together with the current traffic. But I worry that might make a bit too complicated.

One might be worried about performance:

If the game allows for unique patterns and cycles for each junction, won't that make the game slow to a crawl monitoring all the differences in such a large city you could potentially build?

While it might be possible to manage that simulation alone on modern hardware, its combination with other performance heavy simulation makes it a significant burden, that would be seen as not worth it.

But this is where C:S' underlying simulation comes in. C:S doesn't have to actually making cars drive through each junction the player isn't looking at or monitoring. Instead, it uses the traffic light patterns to thoroughly judge where the traffic flows smoother. A decent path finding simulation algorithm would be able to simulate the general traffic flow of a city without a huge performance hit. And it would likely also make it more accurate than trying to fully simulate it (because there is a larger risk for error).
 
Last edited:

C40LFR

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Well, you could tie the pedestrian crossings to pattern numbers. The most important aspect is to keep this system simple. Both engine wise and UI wise. For instance, overlapping traffic lights would not possible. I know several lights (in real life) where one starts before another ends, this is too complicated to have in the game.

The pattern number system also help with junctions with more than 4 roads meeting, where the third 'wheel' road could be assigned the number 3 and get its own time.

I am also wondering whether the same lanes/pedestrian crossings should be allowed in more than one pattern number. For instance, you might want to keep traffic flowing forward and to the left, while the opposing traffic is stopped, but you also want the opposing traffic flowing together with the current traffic. But I worry that might make a bit too complicated.

One might be worried about performance:

If the game allows for unique patterns and cycles for each junction, won't that make the game slow to a crawl monitoring all the differences in such a large city you could potentially build?

While it might be possible to manage that simulation alone on modern hardware, its combination with other performance heavy simulation makes it a significant burden, that would be seen as not worth it.

But this is where C:S' underlying simulation comes in. C:S doesn't have to actually making cars drive through each junction the player isn't looking at or monitoring. Instead, it uses the traffic light patterns to thoroughly judge where the traffic flows smoother. A decent path finding simulation algorithm would be able to simulate the general traffic flow of a city without a huge performance hit. And it would likely also make it more accurate than trying to fully simulate it (because there is a larger risk for error).

It honestly just depends on how far CO wants to take it, if at all. We could go into the fine technical detail of traffic engineering, and go into full phase diagrams. I think what needs to happen is that there is auto management by game itself and we(as the player) just need fine tune specific details. There is just those times when there is a ton of people making a right turn and wish I could give 2 right turn lanes with a protected right turn green phase. We don't need Trafficware Synchro 9 in CiM2. :laugh:

I wouldn't worry too much about performance, especially if we are talking about the default ruleset. I could only make my Macbook Pro's i7 and iMac's desktop i5 feel the burn running 400%+ population on max time speed. My GPUs have more trouble rendering transfer points with hundreds of moving people on screen more than anything.
 
Last edited:

co_martsu

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Thanks for all the feedback about the traffic lights/crossings! Traffic lights appear with certain sized streets and crossings are currently automated as well, but I'll take your feedback forward :)
 

Norfolk_Chris

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There is a major problem with traffic lights in CIM2 that causes major traffic congestion; this occurs when two sets of traffic lights are located in close proximity on a section of road.
The solution to this is that traffic light in close proximity need to be linked to operate in unionism, as happens in real life. This could either be an automatic process that applies when junctions occur within a set distance, or they could be manually linked via a tool. I would be happy with either of these. :)
 

co_martsu

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There is a major problem with traffic lights in CIM2 that causes major traffic congestion; this occurs when two sets of traffic lights are located in close proximity on a section of road.
The solution to this is that traffic light in close proximity need to be linked to operate in unionism, as happens in real life. This could either be an automatic process that applies when junctions occur within a set distance, or they could be manually linked via a tool. I would be happy with either of these. :)

Really good point, thanks!
 

SlyEcho

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I didn't mean to say that there shouldn't be any traffic lights. But there should be more options to build different kinds of intersections to optimize traffic.

At least that's what I play CiM2 for and I hope CS:L will improve on that.