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JerkyJerry

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A bit harsh, but I have to agree with you.
Well I could be like most others and either post nothing despite not liking it or posting positives that are not game related...but CS has a forum and if they want some truth, they will read this. If they want more smoke blown up their arses oh they are getting that and then some!

I literally watch about 20+ hours of videos each week at work. I have seen hundreds of hours of created content by players. Not once, did one of them ever say "they should add poles to busses." Not once did a player identify an issue that busses with poles on them would or could solve.

I don't even care that CS swung and missed with taxis or cable cars or the post office etc. at least those things brought something new to the game something we did not have before.
This? This we already have, twice!

I also don't understand why I was given the geometry lesson. Couldn't CS have posted a lot of information about how technical a lot the game code is? Couldn't they have blown my mind with, oh I don't know, water mechanics, wind, traffic, etc. etc. etc. Just because the polebusses come with some math does not change the fact that this is neither new or exciting and absolutely deserves the grade I gave it. Harsh or not, deserved.

If I were a math teacher maybe my grade would be different but I'm not am I? I'm a mayor. You want to impress me CS with your math? Show me the math that proves polebusses relieves traffic. Show me the math that states as a mayor, polebusses are more advantageous than the identical forms of transportation I already have. Show me that math that proves my citizens will be happier with polebusses than trams or busses. Show me the math that polebusses decrease crime, less fires, higher education etc. etc. etc. Give me some mayoral math CS

Do I mind if CS tries something new and fails? NO. Do I care if CS tries to solve an issue and fails? NO. This is neither new nor issue solving.

@Lord_Beelzebub I love the parking lot idea. As you know, that is a mayoral decision to make. Polebusses? That decision CS already made for me....never ever will there be one in one of my cities.
 

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AFAIK working parking areas are easily obtainable as assets from the Steam workshop (that is at least if you are playing through Steam). There are of course some trolleybuses in the workshop as well but working as trams or buses doesn't make them right (either fixed to the tracks or polluting the area). Their poles were also not animated so they looked terrible detached from the wires. I have only tried them a few times but never really used these despite me being one of those "trolleybus fans" you never heard of (videos are not the only way of expression btw).

I wonder what makes you hate the idea of trolleybuses so much? If we are talking about "mayoral decision", are you perhaps a mayor of Moscow or Wellington? :) They seem to hate everything related. But there are also mayors who like trolleybuses (like San Francisco or Prague).

Anyway, there is content I would probably never have requested for Cities: Skylines but am not telling developers they are doing something wrong because they have included something I won't use. On the contrary so far I have bought every big DLC out of my respect to the developers as they are not only making an awesome game but are also supporting Linux as the platform of my choice :). And for that they have my utmost respect.

Ps: Just to add to that, being interested in trolleybuses (as well) I have enjoyed reading about the trolleybus poles rendering. It explains how it behaves so it is not useless info at all. And as mentioned each pole follows its wire separately which is visible on the so far released videos when the distance in between the wires change like on street intersections were the wires a bit unrealistically just take the shortest route to the next section (same with trams).
 
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BadDragon62

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For those of us who play vanilla, the more options we get given the better. Just because there is a mod for this, doesn't mean that it should not exist in the game.
 

Fox_NS_CAN

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I ran a search for trolleybusses not one hit other than this thread.
Not taking sides in this, but the forum search is broken. Has been for, I guess years now.
I have searched for stuff I know I posted and never turned them up.
If I search for ALL of my posts, I turn up less than 200.
I think it is more likely to turn up results if you started the thread yourself, but not anything within that thread.

There's a thread about some of the goings on:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...ts-from-2015-2018-missing-megathread.1090204/

Pretty sure everything is still there, just "search" does not find it.
 

JerkyJerry

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I wonder what makes you hate the idea of trolleybuses so much?
First the parking lots. I earn no income. There are no expenses. It is just a car park, I'll have to assume that if parking lots were like toll booths I would be able to set the pricing, pay for the upkeep and earn the profits or incur the losses? So while we do have parking lots, they are just cosmetic at the moment. Sure cars use them but as a mayor, there is nothing mayoral about them at the moment.

I'll throw it right back at you, Why like polebusses so much? They do absolutely nothing that we don't already have. They are on roads; just like busses and trams. They have stops just like busses and trams. They will clog up my roads just like busses or trams. Why would I get jazzed over them? What is the draw? They do nothing new, provide nothing today that I did not already have yesterday.

And you can't tell me that polebusses are a new form of transportation. They are not. They are busses with a different form of propulsion. Nothing more. They could have substituted the poles with: cooking grease, batteries, solar, hydrogen, atomic, expired cims or any other form of energy they would still be the same; just busses. Nothing more, nothing less.

Of all the suggestions made on this forum alone. All of them. This, busses with poles, this was chosen. Of all of the amazing, brilliant, outstanding suggestions on this forum, it was busses with poles on them that was the absolute best option to include in an update titled Sunset Harbor. Polebusses have what exactly to do with a Harbor? Sunset I get. That is easy, polebusses should be ridden off into the sunset. That I get. But Harbor?

And I'm happy for the staff that got the polebusses to work perfectly. It will look great on someone's resume I'm sure! WTG! I'm not anti staff. I'm not anti CS. I think the decision to put the time, effort, resources that was put into this to satisfy less than 1% of the mayors was time, effort, resources not well spent. But that is just my opinion. I think polebusses on every level, was a terrible idea, others think it was brilliant. The great thing about opinions is that they are just like buttholes. In that everybody has one
 

JerkyJerry

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Not taking sides in this, but the forum search is broken. Has been for, I guess years now.
I have searched for stuff I know I posted and never turned them up.
If I search for ALL of my posts, I turn up less than 200.
I think it is more likely to turn up results if you started the thread yourself, but not anything within that thread.

There's a thread about some of the goings on:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...ts-from-2015-2018-missing-megathread.1090204/

Pretty sure everything is still there, just "search" does not find it.
So what you saying is that the extra months it took to get the polebusses up to snuff, someone could have worked on fixing this?
Yeah I know it is not the same people and a different skill set. But yeah, same difference to mayors isn't it? Still broke aye?
 

JerkyJerry

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For those of us who play vanilla, the more options we get given the better. Just because there is a mod for this, doesn't mean that it should not exist in the game.
It is just a propulsion difference. It is the exact same bus. They will be on roads. We already have roads. Nothing new, nothing is being presented by polebusses. Everything is the same but the fuel.
As a mayor, the difference is?
 

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Yeah trolleybuses are nothing new really. Just designed to appeal to nostalgia.

Some parking garages would have been nicer, as would a crime overhaul.
 

Giveaway412

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Unfortunately I have to agree with @JerkyJerry. While trolleybuses are interesting and the amount of work that went into developing them commendable, functionally they provide very little benefit to the city. You have to put in the same amount of work as trams to get them up and running, but they only have the capacity provided by buses. People bring up the lack of pollution but Green Cities already implemented Biofuel Buses for that exact purpose. Furthermore, the fact that Trolleybus lines don't use the same network as trams (meaning there's likely no way to get trams and trolleybuses running on the same network) means that I'll likely have little use for them.

The rest of the DLC looks great, but ultimately I think I personally would have preferred if the work that went into trolleybuses went in something like beach tourism or marinas instead.
 

Lord_Beelzebub

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AFAIK working parking areas are easily obtainable as assets from the Steam workshop (that is at least if you are playing through Steam).
I play on console so I don't have access to mods.

I'm actually surprised parking garages haven't made it into this game yet or why the devs don't think it's necessary. Sim City 4 had parking garages to help with traffic congestion.

My thinking of it is, it adds complexity to the game because you have to decide where is the most effective place to put it so most Cims will use it, then decide the fee you're going to charge Cims to park in it, maybe even day time fee vs night time fee, what other modes of transportation to put near by so after the Cims park, how will they continue their journey?
 
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Lord_Beelzebub

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Unfortunately I have to agree with @JerkyJerry. While trolleybuses are interesting and the amount of work that went into developing them commendable, functionally they provide very little benefit to the city. You have to put in the same amount of work as trams to get them up and running, but they only have the capacity provided by buses. People bring up the lack of pollution but Green Cities already implemented Biofuel Buses for that exact purpose. Furthermore, the fact that Trolleybus lines don't use the same network as trams (meaning there's likely no way to get trams and trolleybuses running on the same network) means that I'll likely have little use for them.

The rest of the DLC looks great, but ultimately I think I personally would have preferred if the work that went into trolleybuses went in something like beach tourism or marinas instead.
100% agree with both of you.
 

Fox_NS_CAN

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So what you saying is that the extra months it took to get the polebusses up to snuff, someone could have worked on fixing this?
No. What I'm saying is that while you didn't find posts on trolleys, they are there. The Forum Search feature doesn't work very well, and hasn't for some time.

I haven't used regular buses in my last two cities (so years, my current city is nearly a year old now, yeah, I'm that slow). I don't see myself using trolleys. Can't rule it out I guess at some point. I should use some buses at some point. Maybe if I grab the accordion bus from the workshop. That's getting off topic though.
 

Lord_Beelzebub

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I don't plan on ever using trolly buses. To me they are too restrictive in their use. Have to use specific roads and I'm sure there won't be a big selection of road types to choose from plus they most likely won't be compatible with all the other types of hubs and transportation buildings.

They'll probably be like the trams, limited road selection and limited ability to use with other assets.

Regular buses however, limitless because you can place a bus stop on any road type virtually anywhere, and it works.

Trolly buses will probably be cool for people at first until you start having to deal with their limitations.
 

YertyL

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I am a bit torn on the topic of trolley buses...on the one hand, I really enjoyed a brief visit to Salzburg last summer, so being able to replicate that inner-city atmosphere is a plus.
https://www.salzburg-ag.at/content/...e.720.450.noborder.scale.243d6df944970b4b.jpg
On the other hand, from a gameplay perspective, I really think they should have made trolley buses articulated (two-parted) with 50-60 capacity by default. It is hard to justify giving them their own depot -- which drives up costs -- and their own roads -- which severely limits their flexibility, which is the main reason to use buses in the first place -- just to get essentially the standard bus.
A standard bus can go on roads with bike lanes, roads with trees, dirt roads, roads with monorail lines, six-lane-roads and highways (important for connecting small villages). You lose all that for reduced costs, which will likely not actually be reduced at all in the end because you need an extra depot. Considering trolley buses are essentially trams from a gameplay perspective, I believe a higher capacity would have been more than justified.

Lastly, the thing that sours this a little for me on the personal level is that there is already an additional kind of bus in the game that I have yet to make work in my cities -- the sightseeing buses with their perpetual 2-3 passengers.

So yeah, I would have preferred higher capacity trolley buses and/or just a fix to make sightseeing buses (and balloons) see more use. I am sure they will still look very cute though :)
 

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Well, apparently no one can get ultimately satisfied. Me (and some other people on this forum at least) were hoping to see trolleybuses ever since the game was released. In my case it had to do with the fact Cities in Motion (the "predecessor") had them so I thought there is a chance CO can include them again. I was a bit disappointed when they didn't make it through in the Mass Transit DLC where these would most definitely fit more but I have certainly not been vocal about that. I also don't see trolleybuses nostalgic but as a viable environment friendly option as I expect the cost will be lower than with trams and they should blend in with regular buses a bit more (using the same stops). Of course all these aspects are yet to be seen once this DLC is available.

Nonetheless I really hope this is not the last DLC. Cities: Skylines is the best city simulation game out there and I don't think it would be a good choice to make a new and in every aspect incompatible game that would render all this great community has worked for (assets and mods) obsolete. They will probably release a new game of a different genre anyway, but that doesn't mean Cities: Skylines must die :). And if that's how things are going to turn out then maybe you could still get parking lots, beaches and crime in one of the future DLCs. And I would probably enjoy those too - well, except for the crime, but whatever ...
 

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It is just a propulsion difference. It is the exact same bus. They will be on roads. We already have roads. Nothing new, nothing is being presented by polebusses. Everything is the same but the fuel.
As a mayor, the difference is?
You know what? If you don't like it you don't have to use it. I see CS as a game for every corner of the world. Many countries still use trolleybuses. Good example is San Francisco. As you know, I hope, part of the city is uphill so San Francisco MUNI uses trolleybuses to run what are in that part of the city. Having a diesel bus run those routes would be a nightmare for the
residents, because the bus would just run on high rpm and that creates noise and pollution. Of course trolleybuses in SF will someday be replaced by full electric buses, but because battery technology doesn't allow electric buses to travel 400-500km without charging, trolleybuses continue to drive there. Another good example is Europe and Russia. Most contries in Europe have a trolleybus system in some of their cities. The largest trolleybus network is in Minsk where the are about 60 trolleybus routes. In the end of the day no one forces you to use them in your city. The name of the game is "Cities Skylines" and developers are taking ideas form CITIES. If Boring Company tunnels would be in operation now under LA right now, they would add them into the game as well.
 

JerkyJerry

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You know what? If you don't like it you don't have to use it.
I already stated exactly what you stated. The only positives I'm reading are just like yours...the real life scenarios. Not game play. No, you and others talk about how great trolleybusses are in real life. Not once have I read an argument why they make any "game sense" at all. We have trolleybusses already. They are just a different form of propulsion. And I'm not paying full price for a DLC that only provides a different form of propulsion for a bus. That I'm not paying for, not full price. I can easily wait until the holiday sale for this DLC. I have half of it now in the form of mods and the other half, I'm not going to use or am not that thrilled about anyway.
Now, @KappaLappa can you tell me why trolleybusses make any 'game sense' whatsoever?

Your response by the way is so precious! I love it!
 
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JerkyJerry

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I haven't used regular buses in my last two cities (so years, my current city is nearly a year old now, yeah, I'm that slow). I don't see myself using trolleys. Can't rule it out I guess at some point. I should use some buses at some point. Maybe if I grab the accordion bus from the workshop. That's getting off topic though.
I do use them. Only on their own roads. It was a challenge at first for me to figure out how to utilize them but once I got the hang of it, having busses only roads is well, the only way to go for me. Having busses on city roads just drove me, up a wall I tells ya!
I also only use the "Manhattan" method of public transportation.
Subway's north and south
All other forms of public transportation goes east and west
It is much easier for me to visualize, then implement straight routes when using multiple forms of public transportation. I make fewer mistakes that way. For me subways have to go north & south. Anything different is just plain not my city! Then on the same block I put a stop for each form of transport and then the cims can easily go north, south, east or west all from the same city block!

The other really amazing thing I found out is that cims will bike miles and miles and miles if given the dedicated, not interrupted (by cross walks), bike paths they crave.

I admire the amount of time (nearly a calender year old) you have dedicated to your city. Do you have any links to this; musical, magical, mystical city of yours? Any time lapse photography?
How much time per day you mayoring?
Unlimited $?