Cities: Skylines is not a great game and not a city simulator

[Co_Karoliina]

I have not read the whole thread, but in general, I'm sorry that the game is not to everyone's liking. We are working on the first patch and will make free updates and normal expansions later on.

There has been a misconception about the pathfinding, vehicles DO NOT teleport to DESTINATION if they fail to reach a building. They teleport to the point of origin. Industry does not require workers to be present, because simulation a million people going to work and back would have made the system requirements go through the roof. Not all workers travel to work, most do at some point, but not simultaneously.

We are very proud of the game and hope many people enjoy it, and that some who don't might find or make mods to make the game more to their liking For example there already is a mod that removes the teleporting altogether, creating huge traffic gridlocks and making the city much harder to keep in balance. It's a true hard mode if I ever saw one!

 

[andysonofbob]

This game cost £23 on Steam on release which is probably its most expensive retailer. I got it for £19 on GamePlanet and it is still that price. For £20 (half we were expected to pay for SimCity) this is a very polished and content rich city building sim.

I completely get that it is not as content rich as SimCity or SimCity 4 but it costs a lot less too.

Comparing prices leaves me very satisfied. Bang for bucks right?

 

[Kanimir]

You're drunk OP, go home.

 

[Letar]

No name calling, trolling or personal attacks thank you. Also, posting criticism is of course accepted and welcome on these forums, but it doesn't mean you are allowed to insult other players (or anyone else) while you're at it. Constructive criticism with examples and alternatives for current behaviour is more than welcome, just stating that something is crap isn't very helpful.

 

[bucgene]

TBH.... as a programmer myself, I can't tell you guys how much amazed I am at the way they designed the fundamental city simulation programming architecture by combining both agent simulation and statistical simulation, and at the same time being realistically enough to run the simulation with multi-thread support. BRILLIANT!

Last i checked with a 400k pop 25 tiles map, all 4 cores of my CPU are running at 100% capacity. Fully optimized to juice everything out of my CPU.

I don't know you guys, I just feel that the simulation engine alone (with mod support of course) is already worth the $30 I'm paying. Image what great things we can create from this!

Are there bugs in the simulation: Yes.

Are they unfixable: No.

Is this a good simulation engine: I would say, BEYOND GOOD!

Edit: Just wanted to take the opportunity to give a BIG THANKS for co_karoliina to design such a great base game!

 

[whosthebestcop]

The reason why developer size and game cost comes in as a valid reason is the same reason there are different leagues in sports and different weight classes in fighting.

The SimCity Franchise is a Super Heavy Weight. It came out in 1989! A Quarter of a century to develop its craft. I know plenty of people that consider SimCity 3000 Unlimited the best in the franchise. That was a update of Simcity 3000 the Unlimited edition was still 15 years ago released in 2000!

Cities Skylines is like the Light Weight Champion of the World. I mean it was easy to get this game for USD of $20-25. No Simcity game for any game system or PC ever cost price accounting for inflation.

And all the simcity games had patches and re-releases for each generation of games. People still mod Simcity 2k and 3k to this day.

So that is why reviewers rate this game high. Everything is taken into consideration. It is not a AAA city building developed game and shouldn't be consider one. Will Wright was one of the 1st Game Developer Rock Stars. Maxis was huge, it went public in 1995! EA didn't buy them till 1997. I'm almost glad to see Maxis close shop. It basically was dead in 2006 and dead in spirit once Will left in 2009.

Personally I never even cared for Simcity 4, Will had nothing to do with that game and he was the heart of it since the late 80's. EA really didn't start messing up Maxis till like 2004/2005.

Honestly I think it is unfair to compare CSky to Simcity Classic/2k/3k/4. They were all juggernauts not just of the genre but of all gaming. It is unreal how many different systems and Pc's Classic and 2k were ported. I've played classic on Dos, Mac OS, Amiga, Commodore 64 and Super NES! I remember they even had it loaded on some Unix mainframes when I started college.

So point is don't compare the games. You have to find the fun in what CSky is and not look to see what it is not. It is not Simcity 2k/3k. Not many games are. But it doesn't make CSky a bad game. It is just not on their level yet. It might get Simcity 2k good after patches and DLC's. And that is fair all the Simcity games had them.

But it won't achieve juggernaut status honestly until a full sequel later. It is just impossible for any new game to come out and be better than those 2-3 Simcity games. They are like top 10-15 games of all time. Its like a new RPG non AAA title coming out and being better than Baldur's Gate 2 its first try. The odds of that are near impossible.

The new Dragon Age games doesn't even have the same level of control for NPC scripting as BG2 had Two Decades ago! And that is AAA and descendants of the same developer family tree.

 

[ggjono]

Theres 8 pages of stuff I havn't read but I think you should watch this! https://soundcloud.com/steven-boogie-williams/dont-buy-the-game-nhl-madden-borderlands

 

[whosthebestcop]

Sorry just one more thing.........

Will Wright and Maxis was so big their damn Pinball game was included on the Windows 95 CD! Which at the time the biggest OS release ever. People were buying the OS at midnight long before Apple. A couple Years later Microsoft even put that pinball game into Office as an Easter Egg.

So umm Will Wright and Maxis Freaking HUGE!

 

[magitsu]

I don't buy Sim City 3000/4 being better just because people keep repeating it from faded memories. I clocked substantial number of hours for the former and honestly it doesn't compare to what we see here in front of our eyes. The mechanics really need to be looked at now that there's something to compare it against.
For me the agent system appears superior as a base for plausible simulation of a bunch of humans interacting in a defined area. Better than the old full statistical model.
If it really is, then SC4 truly can't be the best. Please, now is the moment to upgrade your view on SC4 when there is something worthy to reflect it against.

So argue what in your opinion makes the old approach superior? Does SC4 still hold water or has the dam already burst and we're just waiting for the water to catch us?

 

[Vampiro_nl]

I have not read the whole thread, but in general, I'm sorry that the game is not to everyone's liking. We are working on the first patch and will make free updates and normal expansions later on.

There has been a misconception about the pathfinding, vehicles DO NOT teleport to DESTINATION if they fail to reach a building. They teleport to the point of origin. Industry does not require workers to be present, because simulation a million people going to work and back would have made the system requirements go through the roof. Not all workers travel to work, most do at some point, but not simultaneously.

We are very proud of the game and hope many people enjoy it, and that some who don't might find or make mods to make the game more to their liking For example there already is a mod that removes the teleporting altogether, creating huge traffic gridlocks and making the city much harder to keep in balance. It's a true hard mode if I ever saw one!

Don't worry, the "perfect" game doesn't exist.
With everything you people could have done diffrent, someone else might have asked why you did it THAT way and not the way it's done right now. Can't please everyone a full 100%
People dont like "teleporting" but we also dont like the traffic madness of SimCity and we also don't like it if we all need supercomputers.

Right now, if you like it, you leave it as it is, if you don't like it, use the "anti teleport" mod.
And thats exactly what i ment, the base game leaves room for changes, which is awesome. If they DIDN'T teleport and the streets would have all been a mess like in Simcity, it would have been much harder to fix that with a mod.

Personally i think the base game is awesome without MAJOR flaws. But i have to admit im looking forward to DLC and expantion pack to give the game a little more in-dept.
And indeed some patches would be nice, especially in the mod. department we could use some help on certain things. But thats a positive thing as i want MORE of this game, and not a negative.

 

[DDA87]

The game just lacks a challenge system with long term goals. Besides unlocking buildings, having more pop, and the occasional traffic jam there isn't much to do atm. I bought the game after watching quill, and after having a first play-through where I payed attention to quill's obvious mistakes my city's already at 100% efficiency. If you build a city perfectly, the first time, in a city-sim the game is simply too easy yes.

The engine is great, the fps is great, I love seeing the little details everywhere, but as a city-sim they need to add alot more challenge besides a 'make everything a little more expensive minimod' if they want people to keep playing long-term. It's fun to play and worth the 25 bucks imo, but it's no civ4 or pharaoh or caesar III

 

[Person012345]

I have not read the whole thread, but in general, I'm sorry that the game is not to everyone's liking. We are working on the first patch and will make free updates and normal expansions later on.

There has been a misconception about the pathfinding, vehicles DO NOT teleport to DESTINATION if they fail to reach a building. They teleport to the point of origin. Industry does not require workers to be present, because simulation a million people going to work and back would have made the system requirements go through the roof. Not all workers travel to work, most do at some point, but not simultaneously.

We are very proud of the game and hope many people enjoy it, and that some who don't might find or make mods to make the game more to their liking For example there already is a mod that removes the teleporting altogether, creating huge traffic gridlocks and making the city much harder to keep in balance. It's a true hard mode if I ever saw one!

Can I have a link to this?

 

[magitsu]

Can I have a link to this?

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=407335588

 

[Kanimir]

I don't buy that Sim City 3000/4 being better just because people keep repeating it from memory. I clocked substantial number of hours for former and honestly it doesn't compare to what we see here in front of our eyes. The mechanics really need to be looked at now that there's something to compare it against.
For me the agent system appears superior as a base for plausible simulation of a bunch of humans interacting in a defined area. Better than the old full statistical model.
If it really is, then SC4 truly can't be the best. Please, now is the moment to upgrade your view on SC4 now that there is something worthy to reflect it against.

So argue what in your opinion makes the old approach superior? Does SC4 still hold water or has the dam already burst and we're just waiting for the water to catch us?

This. People often remember things better than they really were because of nostalgia (tons of mods for SC4 also helped). If I had to take base game, it'd take C:SL over any other city builder, no second thought.

 

[Shadrack]

Yeah loads. In fact most play grounds parks etc are designed not to be accessible by road. They have pedestrian access only via paths etc.

 

[Inge Jones]

Perhaps police or morticians could leave their cars on the nearest road and walk to the park?

 

[Greygor69]

I am sorry for what I am going to say, but today, Cities:Skylines is at best, a pretty mediocre game with undeserved praises and review scores, and people will see it on a few days.

- The game doesn't have good graphics, old games like cities XL or 2013 have much better art and models, even night and day.

- It's extremely simple and easy, it lacks of basic features. It's not a city simulator but a road building one with minor gimmicks added, even on hard difficulty money flows, it's impossible to fail.

- The public transport is a non-sense, pretty limited in options and just works by spamming stops

- Citizen simulator is non-existent, they teleport to work, home, or moving around the map, and their live expectancy is ridiculous. They are always happy and +85% have higher education. Remember the pollution on simcity? And the riots because of it?, well on skylines citizens doesn't know what the hell is. Candyland doesn't have problems for you or they don't bother at all. Not even crime affects a lot your neighborhoods.

- Tourism doesn't have any importance, just like almost anything on the game.

- No disasters means no challenge at the long run, playing is easy. The fires doesn't even move between buildings.

- Traffic is crap, seriously, it is a complete crap that doesn't work as should.
And even with red zones the citizens doesn't bother and they are still happy. And more hilarious when cars just simply disappear.

- Road options are super limited, not even tunnels (I know about the future, I talk about now). Everything must be constructed near a road, even parks.

- Policies are also pretty limited, you can't even choose between density zones for industry or commerce, or make industrial districts with lower education, hell the game doesn't even ask for it to play. The global simulation is pretty light, your options doesn't have a lot of importance, and when they do they are just basically 3 standard tactics to make your city grow and no other will work, well, no other because no other options exists.

- No terraforming

And a lot more.

Some will hate me for say this, but this game is vastly inferior to SC4. Also, is not at the same level of SC2013 or XL on a lot of things, and after some hours when you finally see the light and that the game is just a cities in motion with some light touches of city simulator but all of them pretty light and bland, the disappointment comes. Is not a +90 game, is not even a +70 game. Not exactly the same kind of game but Tropico 4 or Anno 2070 literally destroys this game at all levels, much more deep games where you can play like 30x the time you'll put on Skylines.

Also, even if the dev promises 234908243 updates and dlcs, I have doubts that with an engine like unity and its limits to make huge games, will work at the end. And if it does, just buy it in the future not today as there are better options. With skylines we will end spending 250€ just to have a game that can compete in options with older ones.

Well I'm not going to have a go at you, it's not to your tastes and unlike many you list why.

I have to say I don't agree with many of your points, in fact reading some of them makes me wonder how long you've spent in game.

It also may be that my opinion is coloured by my own experience.

* I like the look if the game, it has it's own style that suits it, I agree that Cities XXL and Simcity 2013 do have nice looking models, but really the look is a very subjective thing.

* You say the game is simple and easy and yet there are many users saying they've had to restart because their city died.

* Public Transport I can't comment on as the way I've designed my cities it's not really needed, I only use Metros for inter district travel and that seems to be working.

* I always turn disasters off so I can't say I miss them. Spreading fire may be an interesting idea how much and how fast would be a debate to have.

* My experience of the transport is that it appears to work and reacts to changes that I make. Also the road options so far are more than sufficient for my needs. No Tunnels is not a difficulty at the moment and is such a minor feature I'm not even sure why it would bother anyone in week 1 of release.

* Not sure what density has to do with Policies, density is from zoning. Maybe you meant a different word. It also sounds like your wanting a policy to keep your people unskilled to act as factory fodder rather than adapting and changing to city growth, almost as if you want to an easy solution to correct poor planning.

* Everything must be built near roads, true, would it be more realistic if you could place things anywhere, even places people can't reach?


I'm not saying it's without problems, Leisure certainly needs tweaking. But if your trying to tell me that SC 4 on it's day of release was better than this on day of release that your looking at the past with rose tinted glasses.

 

[unmerged(721366)]

A comparison between the basegame of Cities Skylines made of 9 Devs on the one hand - and on the other hand an oldschool 2D-engine-game with hundreds of mods, add ons and 12 years of after-release-development. Are you kidding?

one word: disproportional.

@Colossal Order: You made a PHENOMENAL job. A metacritic User score of 9.5, which is still stable one week after release. Outstanding press reviews. That speaks in your favour.
Don't let you drag down by one percent of naysayers.

I played 40 hours+ and the game is getting better the more i get into all mechanics.

 

[woz]

I am quite happy with the game. Sure it has bugs and features that are missing but it is still a good game for the price. You also have to remember this game will be supported for a long time. CSL was successful because CO listen to the community we pretty much got what we wanted.

SC13 failed because Maxis didn't listen to the community so it was doomed to fail. The always online feature which was the decision of Maxis not EA was going to fail. EA should have intervene into Maxis but chose to let them do there own thing.

At least CO engages with the community and i am sure together with CO the community will make this a better game.

 

[kissof]

It's the best 1.0, out of the box, city builder I've ever played. I look forward to it getting better.

i second this.

and Unity is a pretty awfully amazing engine!

look at ori and the blind forest:

[video=youtube;uDt-5mLafqk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDt-5mLafqk[/video]

endless legend!

[video=youtube;OsMa9EC3nf8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsMa9EC3nf8[/video]


Dungeon of the endless!

[video=youtube;Y_OAL_O_Ccc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_OAL_O_Ccc[/video]

Blacksmith Tech Demo ! (rendered in real time!)

[video=youtube;G-zLx5JVMVE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-zLx5JVMVE[/video]