Cities in Motion 2: European Cities Announced!

  • Victoria 3 - Sign up now!

    The journey begins, sign up now and get a special in-game item when the game is released.


  • Crusader Kings III Available Now!

    The realm rejoices as Paradox Interactive announces the launch of Crusader Kings III, the latest entry in the publisher’s grand strategy role-playing game franchise. Advisors may now jockey for positions of influence and adversaries should save their schemes for another day, because on this day Crusader Kings III can be purchased on Steam, the Paradox Store, and other major online retailers.


    Real Strategy Requires Cunning
  • Crusader Kings II Expansion Subscription

    Subscribe to the CK II Expansion and enjoy unlimited access to 13 major expansions and more!


unmerged(326364)

Sergeant
1 Badges
Jun 8, 2011
67
0
  • Cities in Motion 2
I agree, but I'd like to expand on it a bit:
How about being able to convert all maps. For example, if there was a function to change the map type, and it happens that there are American style buildings on the map, they all get removed during the conversion process.
Still can't get over the fact that we can't combine sets though :( Yeah I know, I'm whining.

For both issues - converting maps and using both sets on one map - can be solved. You can find the informations all in this forum. Its a bit of word - but it works.
 

Alex_brunius

Field Marshal
68 Badges
Mar 24, 2006
22.400
5.002
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • War of the Roses
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Pride of Nations
  • Magicka 2
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Achtung Panzer
  • Stellaris
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • PDXCON 2017 Gold Ticket holder
  • Surviving Mars
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Cities in Motion
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Deus Vult
  • Dungeonland
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Naval War: Arctic Circle
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Sword of the Stars
Some people requested new maps and a campaign, maybe they don't like to build maps themselves? We made a European campaign to go with the buildings to cater to those players' wishes. I doubt the price of the DLC would be cheaper without the campaign or maps, though I can only speculate since we don't handle that stuff. In any case I'm sorry the DLC is not to your liking. I hope we'll develop something you can enjoy the future :)

I have just spent just a huge amount of work in an european map, which you can see here - and i absolutely love the new european flavour. Complaining about 13 euro is a bit exaggerated in my opinion.

Sorry I did not mean to come across of complaining about the price, only about the choice of making yet another add-on with almost no new features/gameplay and just more art.

I realize there are different people but just wanted to point out that I have seen more requests on the forums for new gameplay/AI/features then for new art.
 

neldot

Sergeant
32 Badges
May 6, 2003
76
9
Visit site
  • Semper Fi
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Cities in Motion
But if no buildings have yet been placed in a map, how hard can it be to change the code from North American to European style? I understand that the building style specification is in something called the header. Why not give users the capability of changing something this simple?

I strongly second this point.

Please, CO staff, can you add a button in the editor to switch the building set of already created terrain maps (that have no buildings)?
It would be an huge improvement for map builders.

Thanks in advance.
 

co_martsu

Colossal Order CEO
1 Badges
Aug 25, 2010
1.897
1.378
  • Colossal Order Staff
Any news on this. Did not think it could take more than 4 weeks to answer a question on how the game works. I do not request any changes - I simply want to understand how the game works.

Hi, Sorry it did take me longer than 4 weeks but here we go (the code is seriously complicated, sorry for the delay!):

So how do the cims decide which line to use? The factors in play are travel length, cost and quality of service. Generally the path is chosen based on those three factors and of course the most value is put to short travel length, cheap ticket price and high quality of service (combined quality for vehicles and stops for each line).

How these three factors are valued depends on each passenger as different social groups have their own preferences in terms of cost and quality. For example, students put more value on the price factor than pensioners put on quality. However, decisions are made based on all three categories (travel length, cost, quality).

There is a penalty for changing the vehicle during the travel, but as the travel length is a factor, sometimes the value is greater for the passenger to switch to another line, which is shorter in distance. Please take into consideration that the distance is calculated by the actual travel length and therefore for example the metro is usually good option since it doesn't have to follow roads and circle around buildings and waterbuses are good for crossing larger water areas.
 

unmerged(326364)

Sergeant
1 Badges
Jun 8, 2011
67
0
  • Cities in Motion 2
Hi co_martsu

thanks so much for this answer. Now I have a lot to test to improve the routing of the CIM's within my network.
 

insa80

Private
May 17, 2014
10
0
how about everybody’s daily commute? In Cities in Motion 2, the sequel to Paradox Interactive’s transit simulation hit, players must manage the transportation needs of some of the world’s most famous cities.
 

jasiekzar

Second Lieutenant
1 Badges
Apr 28, 2013
118
1
  • Cities in Motion 2
So how do the cims decide which line to use? The factors in play are travel length, cost and quality of service. Generally the path is chosen based on those three factors and of course the most value is put to short travel length, cheap ticket price and high quality of service (combined quality for vehicles and stops for each line).

According to this, it is the QoS which makes CiMs (probably businessmen and white collar) leave the train, take a few stops with the tram or bus and get back to the same train line again. Tweaking QoS of all vehicles in the ruleset to very high levels so that it's set on 100% for each type of vehicle will remove this factor, as the QoS of each of the vehicles will now be on the same level. (I suggest doing the same with the stops). Similar results can be achieved with setting the price of each ticket at the same level.
 

unmerged(326364)

Sergeant
1 Badges
Jun 8, 2011
67
0
  • Cities in Motion 2
Tweaking QoS of all vehicles in the ruleset to very high levels so that it's set on 100% for each type of vehicle will remove this factor, as the QoS of each of the vehicles will now be on the same level. (I suggest doing the same with the stops). Similar results can be achieved with setting the price of each ticket at the same level.

You can use the QoS also to force CIM's to use express lines if the vehicles of the express line has a higher QoS than the feeder lines.
 

jasiekzar

Second Lieutenant
1 Badges
Apr 28, 2013
118
1
  • Cities in Motion 2
Yes, but 1) this can only be used in relation to the type of transport, not particular lines of vehicles and 2) it will only work with those CIMs for whom the QoS is important, ie. probably white collars and businessmen. The same goes with manipulating with ticket prices only there it will affect students and blue collars. I've seen students ditching metro for buses on parallel lines.
 

unmerged(326364)

Sergeant
1 Badges
Jun 8, 2011
67
0
  • Cities in Motion 2
Hi, Sorry it did take me longer than 4 weeks but here we go (the code is seriously complicated, sorry for the delay!):

So how do the cims decide which line to use? The factors in play are travel length, cost and quality of service. Generally the path is chosen based on those three factors and of course the most value is put to short travel length, cheap ticket price and high quality of service (combined quality for vehicles and stops for each line).

How these three factors are valued depends on each passenger as different social groups have their own preferences in terms of cost and quality. For example, students put more value on the price factor than pensioners put on quality. However, decisions are made based on all three categories (travel length, cost, quality).

There is a penalty for changing the vehicle during the travel, but as the travel length is a factor, sometimes the value is greater for the passenger to switch to another line, which is shorter in distance. Please take into consideration that the distance is calculated by the actual travel length and therefore for example the metro is usually good option since it doesn't have to follow roads and circle around buildings and waterbuses are good for crossing larger water areas.

@co_martsu

I promised to keep you update on my testing on this issue.

here are the first results and to be honest, they are dissapointing.

Scenario:

Metro with 100% or 80% Service Quality.
Trams with 70% or 65%
Alle stops with highest quality available

Still CIM's leave the metro at station one use two tram lines to travel more than 10 stops with the tram and then change back to the metro (2 stations away from where they get off).

At the beginning I habe a short time it seems to work like you described, but opening new a new line changed the behaviour totally. I will investigate further and come back as soon after I have run some more tests and maybe started a new game to find out if I can reproduce the behaviour.

If you have any ideas why this could happend or what I should check - any ideas are highly wellcome.
 

co_martsu

Colossal Order CEO
1 Badges
Aug 25, 2010
1.897
1.378
  • Colossal Order Staff
@co_martsu

I promised to keep you update on my testing on this issue.

here are the first results and to be honest, they are dissapointing.

Scenario:

Metro with 100% or 80% Service Quality.
Trams with 70% or 65%
Alle stops with highest quality available

Still CIM's leave the metro at station one use two tram lines to travel more than 10 stops with the tram and then change back to the metro (2 stations away from where they get off).

At the beginning I habe a short time it seems to work like you described, but opening new a new line changed the behaviour totally. I will investigate further and come back as soon after I have run some more tests and maybe started a new game to find out if I can reproduce the behaviour.

If you have any ideas why this could happend or what I should check - any ideas are highly wellcome.

Was the tram line shorter in distance than the metro? Were the cims in which social group? How was the pricing of these lines (did they go over different zones)?
 

unmerged(326364)

Sergeant
1 Badges
Jun 8, 2011
67
0
  • Cities in Motion 2
Thanks for your quick reply.

It is strange. I have a line where everything works fine. For this line the tram line is a bit shorter (distance is very close).

I have another line, where it does not work and there the tram line is significantly longer than the metro. Also in previous games it seem not been related to the line lenght. I try to make the Tram lines much longer as travel distance is one of the parameters.

CIM's even change the tram line before the reboard the metro.

Pricing for both where exactly the same and both where in one zone and I even tried to give a sort of penalty by changing the zone for the stop they change the tram to another zone. So tram travellers had one more zone to pay than the direct metro travelers.

I will look into the social groups and collect more information and come back with a savegame, where the issues appear.

Thanks again for the support.
 

unmerged(326364)

Sergeant
1 Badges
Jun 8, 2011
67
0
  • Cities in Motion 2
Was the tram line shorter in distance than the metro? Were the cims in which social group? How was the pricing of these lines (did they go over different zones)?

1. Tram line is much longer.
2. All social groups are changing the line. Basically it looks like all CIM's in the metro leave the metro and change to the tram.
3. Pricing for both lines is the same. Tram price is red - metro green or blue.
4. No change of zone on the relevant part of the lines. Metro is coming from another sector, but the relevant stop is already the second within the sector. (But its the first stop in this sector where people can change to another metro or the tram.
5. Without the tram the CIM's change the metro, what is anoying as well, but not as much as the change to a much longer tram line.
6. On top of that the CIM's change also the tram line twice during their travel to the next metro station. Btw. are you really sure there is a penalty for changing lines. It looks more like the linechange is awarded rather than penalized.


I have made some small changes in the scenario:

Metro quality 90-100 - best available metro stations
Tram quality 65% - middle quality tram station

According to your first answer this should cover all aspects.

1. Higher Quality of vehicles and stops for the metro
2. Much shorter travel time and distance with the metro
3. No price difference between both transport types.

So price should be no aspect and quality and travel time shoud force CIM's to use the metro.


To be honest its boring to do the testing you should have done before selling the game. I was already highly suprised, that you had to investigate how your own pathfinding works. For a transport simulation game pathfinding (at least) during transport is THE core feature and sounds strange for me that the developers has to investigate how this feature really works.

I'm really like your game and I have enjoyed a lot playing with the editor and building cities. But as long as I'm not able to understand how I could build a network that works as I expect (or as it would be used by rational humans) its absolutely NO fun to play the game. If a tourist do not behave rational I could understand it but that somebody going home from work would accept a much longer travel just to ride one or more trams, is simply stupid.

To make it 100% clear: I'm not discussing if the pathfinding is good or bad - I'm simply trying to understand how it works.

If you like I can provide you with multiple savegames, all showing the same result. Just let me know.
 

kensternation

First Lieutenant
1 Badges
Sep 28, 2011
232
2
  • Cities in Motion 2
...


To be honest its boring to do the testing you should have done before selling the game. I was already highly suprised, that you had to investigate how your own pathfinding works. For a transport simulation game pathfinding (at least) during transport is THE core feature and sounds strange for me that the developers has to investigate how this feature really works.

I'm really like your game and I have enjoyed a lot playing with the editor and building cities. But as long as I'm not able to understand how I could build a network that works as I expect (or as it would be used by rational humans) its absolutely NO fun to play the game. If a tourist do not behave rational I could understand it but that somebody going home from work would accept a much longer travel just to ride one or more trams, is simply stupid...

+1
Seems like the core of the game, pathfinding, was not really thought out by the designers despite selling a game that relies on it, then claiming it works as expected.
 

unmerged(326364)

Sergeant
1 Badges
Jun 8, 2011
67
0
  • Cities in Motion 2
Its seems to be even worth. It seems, that the developers have no real idea how it works.

Sorry CO, but this is the feeling I have right now.
 

kensternation

First Lieutenant
1 Badges
Sep 28, 2011
232
2
  • Cities in Motion 2
Its seems to be even worse. It seems, that the developers have no real idea how it works.

Sorry CO, but this is the feeling I have right now.

Agreed. I sure hope they get it right for CiM3, but I will wait till after it comes out to hear what people say.