ChristopherOdd's Playthrough of Battletech

[Exemplar Voss]

I suppose I should have said odd isnt a streamer, but I kinda lump them all together.

Edit: I know some streamers post to youtube and some youtubers occasionally livestream but they all seem to fall under the umbrella of entertaining you while they play.

Not always. Several youtubers (particularly ones that don't stream) will play, then go back and add a commentary track.

RetconRaider does this a lot (cuts busywork and adds RPG story elements), and it can add a lot- I hope he does a battletech run on release- its his type of game. (Has long xcom2 and battle brothers runs, and covers a lot of indie and kickstarter project development, particularly for turn based tactics and rpgs)

 

[sterrius]

also remember those mechs had a huge debuff on armor as they where not on full maintance.

 

[Warspectre]

I generally agree, so I should clarify what I mean...The Vindicator has too much rear armor. Odd likes to click the 'Max Armor', and when there is a lot of empty tonnage, that option also adds armor to the rear of the mech along with the front. Since his Vindicator was under equipped, it added a LOT of armor to the rear.

I am all for adding as much armor as I can to the front of the mech, but you should be keeping the back of the mech away from the enemy and therefore, IMO, try and carry just enough to help save you from an unexpected flank.

A mech like that Vindicator could get better use out of that LRM 10 or 2~3 MLasers and heat sinks instead of a lot of rear armor.

That's what I think he is realizing and I have a feeling that he is going to trim some rear armor off his Vindicator and add some additional firepower, which I think is the right thing to do.

Personally, I think having plenty of armor on the Vindi might be a good thing, but everything is circumstantial. This last mission went pretty smoothly for him so no one even got a shot off at his Vindi, but what about those times your front line mechs get dropped? You'll be wanting all that armor, believe me.

Some of these missions seem more like a test of endurance. It's really got me thinking that you might be better served by putting as much armor on as you can on all your mechs. I could be wrong though.

I'm pretty sure the AI is capable of being quite hard, but has been intentionally nerfed for new players. The reason the devs haven't included difficulty toggles (as far as we know) is that each difficulty setting would have to be play tested and they don't have the time for it. We'll find out shortly.
But it's some consolation that modding AI behavior is so easy. Even if HBS gets the AI totally wrong, it could be fixable in a few days after release.

The AI seems decent enough, although in that last run Odd did it would seem the pathfinding could use some work. If the reinforcements had been able to engage, he might have had a tougher fight on his hands.

 

[ED-209]

what about those times your front line mechs get dropped? You'll be wanting all that armor, believe me.

Seems like a high probability for Odd if he keeps putting the Shadow Hawk in the front line in its current state. If those extra Blackjacks hadn't derped out, I suspect he would have seen it cored out for the second mission in a row. Behemoth seems to be a magnet for head shots too.

 

[Warspectre]

Seems like a high probability for Odd if he keeps putting the Shadow Hawk in the front line in its current state. If those extra Blackjacks hadn't derped out, I suspect he would have seen it cored out for the second mission in a row. Behemoth seems to be a magnet for head shots too.

Maybe she should go in the Cent, that thing seems to tank like nobody's business. Ever since MWO, I've been fairly impressed with how solid a mech it is, and it seems like that carried over into this game.

I think I'd also be looking for that cockpit that increases survivability, but the only reason I know that exists is because I've watched some of the dev streams. He hasn't really looked at what the stores have to offer, he just goes straight for the weapons every time. Maybe someday he'll find out about it by accident, but in the meantime, poor Behemoth. It's only a matter of time before she takes one head hit too many.

 

[ED-209]

I'm pretty sure she took a bunch of head hits in Cohh's streams as well. I guess both of them do have a tendency to put her up front in the Shadow Hawk while the Centurion lags behind. I suppose that if you have enough LRMs launched at you that eventually you are going to win the head splat lottery.

 

[Wissenschaft]

Yup, its just a matter of time till LRM rain causes wounds on your pilots.

 

[Panpiper]

Highest priority over any and all skills when starting is guts to level four, everything else can wait.

 

[veevoir]

Highest priority over any and all skills when starting is guts to level four, everything else can wait.

That is, unless we are always stuck with the same team at start then I am tempted to let nature run it's course for some fresh blood.

 

[Dexion]

Don't you think that's a bit extreme? It's fine if it's not your cup of tea, but the last thing we need is more people being toxic towards Youtubers/Streamers (the BT community is starting to get a reputation for this, and that's Not good) .

New folks are going to be hitting the forums over the next few weeks, and it would be nice if they didn't get the idea that personal attacks are normal around here.

 

[Warspectre]

That is, unless we are always stuck with the same team at start then I am tempted to let nature run it's course for some fresh blood.

Don't worry, we're not stuck with them after the 2nd mission. After that, you can fire the lot of them and hire whoever you can find in the Hiring Hall. They also have no plot armor so attrition can take them off your hands too. I'm hoping you can customize at least some of the hirees though.

Don't you think that's a bit extreme? It's fine if it's not your cup of tea, but the last thing we need is more people being toxic towards Youtubers/Streamers (the BT community is starting to get a reputation for this, and that's Not good) .

New folks are going to be hitting the forums over the next few weeks, and it would be nice if they didn't get the idea that personal attacks are normal around here.

I think if everyone talked to everyone else as if they were talking to, say, Dwayne Johnson and he's right in front of them, the forums would be a better place. Then again, Dwayne seems pretty even-tempered so maybe not the best example but I think you get my drift.

 

[Cyttorak001]

Don't you think that's a bit extreme? It's fine if it's not your cup of tea, but the last thing we need is more people being toxic towards Youtubers/Streamers (the BT community is starting to get a reputation for this, and that's Not good) .

New folks are going to be hitting the forums over the next few weeks, and it would be nice if they didn't get the idea that personal attacks are normal around here.

The great thing about an addictive, single-player campaign game like BattleTech is that most commenters will disappear for a week to a month after release.

 

[Rabid]

Don't you think that's a bit extreme? It's fine if it's not your cup of tea, but the last thing we need is more people being toxic towards Youtubers/Streamers (the BT community is starting to get a reputation for this, and that's Not good) .

New folks are going to be hitting the forums over the next few weeks, and it would be nice if they didn't get the idea that personal attacks are normal around here.

As someone who has spent some time in education I can safely say that there are few things as frustrating as seeing someone fail at something (or alternatively; barely succeeding and being satisfied with mediocrity) while simultaneously also failing to learn anything from their failure, especially if you're fairly confident that they would actually be quite successful with just a slight adjustment in approach or methodology. Most of the BT streams I've seen have had at least a good helping of this feeling.

And for those of us with a hyper-analytical style of gaming it can be hard to appreciate that the sort of approach which seems utterly natural (looking at all of the numbers and breaking as much of the game as possible down to "my spreadsheets vs. their spreadsheets") isn't most people's first choice.

 

[Pineapple Salad]

Don't you think that's a bit extreme? It's fine if it's not your cup of tea, but the last thing we need is more people being toxic towards Youtubers/Streamers (the BT community is starting to get a reputation for this, and that's Not good) .

New folks are going to be hitting the forums over the next few weeks, and it would be nice if they didn't get the idea that personal attacks are normal around here.

No, I don't think that's extreme at all. You see, normal people learn when they're doing things. Trial and error. And when they don't understand something, they try to find out. Cohh learned a ton all the time and sidestrafe was just getting hang of things when he had to quit, but Odd is now like 6 hours in and he's still bashing two things together randomly without any thought. Jamming that square block in a circular hole, putting 2 tons of ammo for a single lrm5 and never questioning how much he actually needs. Then he's saving ac5 ammo with 13 shots left because he might need it later but at the same time it's ok to shoot 2 lrm5 because 55 rounds seem like a lot. Not to mention his movement and targeting choices.

 

[Panpiper]

I think if everyone talked to everyone else as if they were talking to, say, Dwayne Johnson and he's right in front of them, the forums would be a better place. Then again, Dwayne seems pretty even-tempered so maybe not the best example but I think you get my drift.

If I talked to Dwayne Johnson about something he had done and screwups he had made, from any position of authority, the same way I wrote to Odd about his, I am absolutely 100% certain Dwayne would nod and take the criticism. Why? Because that is very typical of how coaches talk to athletes, especially when the athlete has ignored previous instruction. Athletes know this, and understand why coaches talk that way. It mirrors the athlete's own internal dialog.

Right now, someone new to the battletech world might look at YouTube and the streamers so as to gain an understanding of what the game is and how to play. They'll get a decent enough idea of what the game is, but they are going to get a very poor example of how to play. Virtually all the streamers pretty much take stock mechs and charge the enemy, relying on luck and developer mercy to succeed. Odd did use the mechlab a tiny bit, and used it to make a mech 'worse' than stock. Frankly I would much prefer a few bruised egos on the part of the streamers if it leads to a better example of how to play.

Do I treat newcomers and newbies with the same criticism? No. Read any of the last couple hundred posts I've made here and 98% are perfectly innocuous and I would hope, helpful for people learning their way. Gaming professionals who earn their living showcasing games, yea, I'll be harsher on them.

 

[bakerclassic]

If I talked to Dwayne Johnson about something he had done and screwups he had made, from any position of authority, the same way I wrote to Odd about his, I am absolutely 100% certain Dwayne would nod and take the criticism. Why? Because that is very typical of how coaches talk to athletes, especially when the athlete has ignored previous instruction. Athletes know this, and understand why coaches talk that way. It mirrors the athlete's own internal dialog.

Right now, someone new to the battletech world might look at YouTube and the streamers so as to gain an understanding of what the game is and how to play. They'll get a decent enough idea of what the game is, but they are going to get a very poor example of how to play. Virtually all the streamers pretty much take stock mechs and charge the enemy, relying on luck and developer mercy to succeed. Odd did use the mechlab a tiny bit, and used it to make a mech 'worse' than stock. Frankly I would much prefer a few bruised egos on the part of the streamers if it leads to a better example of how to play.

Do I treat newcomers and newbies with the same criticism? No. Read any of the last couple hundred posts I've made here and 98% are perfectly innocuous and I would hope, helpful for people learning their way. Gaming professionals who earn their living showcasing games, yea, I'll be harsher on them.

I think you feeling like you have are a 'position of authority' is part of the problem. You're not his coach, you're part of the audience.

Additionally, it's not their job to teach other how to play or even play the game well. It's to be entertaining.

I would suggest you wait a week or two to start watching streamers so you can find someone who can live up to your expectations, because I doubt Chris ever will.

 

[TomatoJuice]

And for those of us with a hyper-analytical style of gaming it can be hard to appreciate that the sort of approach which seems utterly natural (looking at all of the numbers and breaking as much of the game as possible down to "my spreadsheets vs. their spreadsheets") isn't most people's first choice.

Yeah we just have to admit that most people would run for the hills if you tried to play TT BT with them and take out the blank record sheets.

It's not even about complexity itself, but more about overwhelming them with the amount of new information. You can really see it with sidestrafe and even with odd.
The get all the information and try to process them all at once which ironically leads to them missing a lot of information.

Pen & Paper RPGs got way more accepting when more people got familiar with the ideas and cliches of fantasy. Even people that only played WoW had a way easier way into D&D, just because the know some of the typical Fantasy stuff and therefore could filter out some information. It also did help that enough of us turbonerds learned that you don't need to understand the rules to start. Just explain them when they are needed and after a couple of sessions they learn enough.

A very good example is Fantasy Football.
We all know that it's pretty much D&D for Hand Egg fans.
But why does it work for people that would run from a D&D or BT stats sheet?
Because it's their language. They already know the world it plays in (professional sports). They know the terminology they know how something is supposed to work and can therefore understand what the rules try to simulate by using abstractions.

 

[Warspectre]

If I talked to Dwayne Johnson about something he had done and screwups he had made, from any position of authority, the same way I wrote to Odd about his, I am absolutely 100% certain Dwayne would nod and take the criticism. Why? Because that is very typical of how coaches talk to athletes, especially when the athlete has ignored previous instruction. Athletes know this, and understand why coaches talk that way. It mirrors the athlete's own internal dialog.

Right now, someone new to the battletech world might look at YouTube and the streamers so as to gain an understanding of what the game is and how to play. They'll get a decent enough idea of what the game is, but they are going to get a very poor example of how to play. Virtually all the streamers pretty much take stock mechs and charge the enemy, relying on luck and developer mercy to succeed. Odd did use the mechlab a tiny bit, and used it to make a mech 'worse' than stock. Frankly I would much prefer a few bruised egos on the part of the streamers if it leads to a better example of how to play.

Do I treat newcomers and newbies with the same criticism? No. Read any of the last couple hundred posts I've made here and 98% are perfectly innocuous and I would hope, helpful for people learning their way. Gaming professionals who earn their living showcasing games, yea, I'll be harsher on them.

I didn't see your Youtube comment(s), but if you offered constructive criticism without resorting to personal attacks I think that's fantastic and that's the way it should be done. If not, I'm not a moderator here nor there, but anyone that gets toxic over a video game should probably seek professional help for their own sake.

 

[Fox the Apprentice]

I think you feeling like you have are a 'position of authority' is part of the problem. You're not his coach, you're part of the audience.

Additionally, it's not their job to teach other how to play or even play the game well. It's to be entertaining.
[...]

A few points to note:
* Those who have played the backer beta and have taken the time to analyze strategies are able to coach people effectively. Even folks who didn't back up their copy of the backer beta could still have more experience than many streamers. The backer does, then, have a kind of "position of authority" in the same manner as a superior athlete commenting on a lower-level athlete: It may not be the his job to help streamers get better, but a smart streamer will analyze the advice given to them (and not just outright listen to anything chat tells him/her).

* You are correct that it isn't the streamer's job to teach people to play, but they are gamers in their own right. They should always be looking to improve. While that doesn't always mean listening to all advice given to them, it does mean they should be trying to learn things on their own.

* (Not directed at you) At no point should advice be given in a disrespectful manor. It does not matter if a streamer refuses to learn. While they should always be looking to improve, it is their choice in the end.

 

[Dexion]

No, I don't think that's extreme at all. You see, normal people learn when they're doing things. Trial and error. And when they don't understand something, they try to find out. Cohh learned a ton all the time and sidestrafe was just getting hang of things when he had to quit, but Odd is now like 6 hours in and he's still bashing two things together randomly without any thought. Jamming that square block in a circular hole, putting 2 tons of ammo for a single lrm5 and never questioning how much he actually needs. Then he's saving ac5 ammo with 13 shots left because he might need it later but at the same time it's ok to shoot 2 lrm5 because 55 rounds seem like a lot. Not to mention his movement and targeting choices.

That's the thing, Odd is only 6 hrs in, without the benifit of live chat like Sidestrafe has. He clearly doesn't understand some basic principles of the game, and has no-one to explain them too him (he is still, effectively, in the tutorial area). Even if he reads the YouTube comments, chances are he will already have recorded another session by that time. As far as I'm aware he has no previous BT experience.

My point is simply that resorting to personal attacks, such as wondering how someone gets through life without a personal assistant based off performance in a videogame, on the official forums, isn't really helpful to anyone. I'm sure Odd has thick enough skin that he won't be bothered, but is it really the impression we want new players getting when browsing the forum?

Now, if the NGNG guys did these same mistakes, well, they would kinda expect to be flamed.