I wonder if it's a problem with my base copy of EU2 or something. Last time (some year ago) I tried subbing someone I had this issue as well (and I've had EU2 reinstalled many times since).
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WATKABAOI 1.82 (Check in SP to see if you installed it correctly - if not, you'll probably see the normal WATK map and small patches of Terra Incognita allover the place )
Fix for Russia at war crash
Unlimited time patch
Modifications
I reuploaded modifications again. So whoever already downloaded them, please redownload them and overwrite.
WATKABAOI 1.82 (Check in SP to see if you installed it correctly - if not, you'll probably see the normal WATK map and small patches of Terra Incognita allover the place )
Fix for Russia at war crash
Unlimited time patch
Modifications
I reuploaded modifications again. So whoever already downloaded them, please redownload them and overwrite.
I've hosted in V-net now. Everyone get there. If you can't join, ask me for help in msn or ICQ.
Very... weird... session.
It was very noticable I haven't played EU2 for a long time. My appologies for misplaying France so badly.
Country 1:
Got pwned as France.
Mistake 0: Not investing enough at first in first war with England (or even predict this war). It led to a more drawn out war than necessary, even though it was ended with WP (and England taking 3 provs from a vassal).
Mistake 1: Fighting this entire war with 50% maintainance.
Mistake 2: Misclick when AI allies decided to attack some other country, meaning I left irreplacable vassal alliance.
Mistake 3: Not getting new loans to cover for old loans (actually I didn't know this), meaning rising interest rates. 5 lag loans at one point.
Mistake 4: Not promoting tax collectors quick enough, meaning I was fighting entire first war with three tax collectors.
Mistake 5: Could've conquered one province from Holland (not vassalize it though, that option was grayed out, presumably already vassal). Misclick on AI accepted peace offer.
Mistake 6a: Actively joining an AI led alliance.
Mistake 6b: Not exiting when England joined said alliance.
Mistake 7: Thought Therion was aware of direness of French situation. His invasion triggered bankruptcy more or less instantly.
France got down into an economic break collapse at second English invasion, from which there was no point fighting when I was getting +9 d/month from full minting.
Must say there the early events are harsh for France.
Note AI managed to build 80k troops and get inflation from 13 to 0% after me. :rofl:
Country 2: Austria started with massive army, more than 2x supply limit, so I immediately attacked neighbour AI alliance. Wasn't best decision ever, go dowed by a vassal, and even though I eventually won 2 provs I also had to give up two prior to that. No vassalization or such except of Bavaria, how can you expect Austria to afford that with 20k support limit...
Game analysis:
GM seriously needs to look at what can counter England. It can be played to include England, France and western HRE if no one stops it.
It was very noticable I haven't played EU2 for a long time. My appologies for misplaying France so badly.
Country 1:
Got pwned as France.
Mistake 0: Not investing enough at first in first war with England (or even predict this war). It led to a more drawn out war than necessary, even though it was ended with WP (and England taking 3 provs from a vassal).
Mistake 1: Fighting this entire war with 50% maintainance.
Mistake 2: Misclick when AI allies decided to attack some other country, meaning I left irreplacable vassal alliance.
Mistake 3: Not getting new loans to cover for old loans (actually I didn't know this), meaning rising interest rates. 5 lag loans at one point.
Mistake 4: Not promoting tax collectors quick enough, meaning I was fighting entire first war with three tax collectors.
Mistake 5: Could've conquered one province from Holland (not vassalize it though, that option was grayed out, presumably already vassal). Misclick on AI accepted peace offer.
Mistake 6a: Actively joining an AI led alliance.
Mistake 6b: Not exiting when England joined said alliance.
Mistake 7: Thought Therion was aware of direness of French situation. His invasion triggered bankruptcy more or less instantly.
France got down into an economic break collapse at second English invasion, from which there was no point fighting when I was getting +9 d/month from full minting.
Must say there the early events are harsh for France.
Note AI managed to build 80k troops and get inflation from 13 to 0% after me. :rofl:
Country 2: Austria started with massive army, more than 2x supply limit, so I immediately attacked neighbour AI alliance. Wasn't best decision ever, go dowed by a vassal, and even though I eventually won 2 provs I also had to give up two prior to that. No vassalization or such except of Bavaria, how can you expect Austria to afford that with 20k support limit...
Game analysis:
GM seriously needs to look at what can counter England. It can be played to include England, France and western HRE if no one stops it.
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OK, I did mine I guess. For whoever (if anyone) taking the Ottomans:
- You are the king of the east. No AI threat whatsoever.
- Serbia and Bulgaria are conquered. Just need to help Venice to get back provs they occupy there, and you have two 100% peaces. I would recommend just taking the most valuable provs and make them vassal.
- Economy is good. Tax Collectors everywhere.
- Two provinces with Orthodox, plus whatever you take from Serbia/Bulgaria.
- I'd recommend you start diplo-vassaling. I've made alliance with one vassal, and the other should be befriended too. The money is there, and so is the diplo rating on monarchs.
- Some peaceful years will have some conversions and diplomatical expansion. I recommend to convert first, then expand more into Orthodox cores.
- No human nation really to interfere with. Taking Alexandria might get Venice aggravated, but they can't do much atm, because OE navy is larger, and will probably keep growing (get it to about 100 galleys).
And stats
- You are the king of the east. No AI threat whatsoever.
- Serbia and Bulgaria are conquered. Just need to help Venice to get back provs they occupy there, and you have two 100% peaces. I would recommend just taking the most valuable provs and make them vassal.
- Economy is good. Tax Collectors everywhere.
- Two provinces with Orthodox, plus whatever you take from Serbia/Bulgaria.
- I'd recommend you start diplo-vassaling. I've made alliance with one vassal, and the other should be befriended too. The money is there, and so is the diplo rating on monarchs.
- Some peaceful years will have some conversions and diplomatical expansion. I recommend to convert first, then expand more into Orthodox cores.
- No human nation really to interfere with. Taking Alexandria might get Venice aggravated, but they can't do much atm, because OE navy is larger, and will probably keep growing (get it to about 100 galleys).
And stats
Well, I was quite surprised at how France fell so quickly. I didn't want to ruin France. I was expecting a long war, so I prepared accordingly. From a WS of 100%, I only asked 20% (Picardie and Calais). Your granting independence to Guyenne, which I had claimed earlier, unnecessarily prolonged the war, causing your bankruptcy.Chaingun said:
Well, there was also talk about the need to counter France. Things are unpredictable. England's current power is the same as the OE and both Spain and Austria can catch up sooner or later.
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I'll be around tomorrow evening as well I think (if anyone dares to have me to sub their country 
). Don't think I'll be playing 24-25th though.
Edit: I don't blaim you Therion (will change wording), I'd have played as aggressively as you. Main problem was that loans were at critical levels (remember I was upgrading TCs while trying to pay back five loans that eventually got to ~35% interest when three were left).
). Don't think I'll be playing 24-25th though.Edit: I don't blaim you Therion (will change wording), I'd have played as aggressively as you.
Main problem was that loans were at critical levels (remember I was upgrading TCs while trying to pay back five loans that eventually got to ~35% interest when three were left).
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IMO, there is too much talk and too little test.
On the other hand, I don't think this is necessarily that catastrophic for this game. I mean, people can change back and forth a little, and we will eventually see how things develop. The fact that Therion in England completely wrecked France and got crazy powerful doesn't mean it would've happened in every scenario. It's about player tactics/skills and knowing your opponent as well.
Also, England is traditionally a naval power. By committing themselves to Land this way, they will be in dilemmas later if they want to be colonial too. An Austria or Venice or whatever pushing from the east will never be easy to defend for an island nation.
True, my bets still are on crazy Napoleonic style England by mid game though.
i do not see england in is great position as it seems OR as france would be if things would have worked the opposite. no land connection with mainland , thus english could be easilly cut in 2 especially if human alliance...not sure if it ever receives french culture either...does it?
-i feel stupid that i gave up england:rofl:. in the first war i felt that i missed the bus. my reasoning went that even if i got 3 provinces ( at high costs especially fighting the swarm of freanch ai allies with their huge stacks of troops), once at peace for the next 5 years, france would have had to diploannex just at least some of them(including the flander cot) = even greater manpower. however to my surprise they did not, and i am still not sure what the french player's reasoning and strategy was about(Chaingun).
-i was aware french took 5 loans to fight me, but i figured out that once at peace she will simplly mint a few years to pay it back= no big deal. also i was unaware that french made no promotions at all almost as i did(promoted all english provinces right at start), and thus their income was much lower then i expected.
- in the end , french had the manpower but not the money apparentlly, while england had the money but no manpower.
-fighting all those french allies( and loosing impossible fights to loose due to earlly tech randomness) upset me, so i swaped england for brandemburgh with therion. all went great at first gaining new vassal and extending into denemark, but once lithuania invaded me i lost 2 provinces. intreastong that podlasia forced peaced me by gaining one province at -20ws and not even beeing the leader of enemies alliance
-finally switched to spain( while brandy still in good shape with no bad effects on economy, it would have taken many many years of throout saving into beeing able to mount any effective offensive against the mighty polish ALLIANCE or thebohemian one|).
-as spain vassaled marocco, attempted to annex portugal but she broke vassalship = war = reduced it at 1 province (for 11 bb cost but i do not see where i would get any more bb as such for a while so i found it acceptable even if this is not generally my style of playing). currentlly in war with aragon with only the baleares to take in order to vassal it and thus secure it for spanish inheritance as WELL as beeing able to CONTROL its foreign policy ( so it does not get in wars i do not want them to get or loose).
- in the end , again i feel stupid for leaving england and i am a tad gelous at how easy french was bankrolled in the second war( given that therrion could concentrate only on french player while i was busy fighting its former vassals and quicklly exhausting all my punny manpower). as far as the first session goes, therion clearlly had the best progress as things came out be
. also mats as ottos went ok given that the ottomans do not have the huge core advantage they had in previous mps.hopefully their will be even more fun next session , for once we could do with a few extra players, as well as not having a real france would alterate the possible outcomes.
the problem i forsee is that england having cores on all france will keep its bb low and thus advance faster in economy, as compared with everyone else wich needs to gain quiet a LOT of bb just to "keep up", since no nation has as many cores (both taken and to be taken) as english do. however there are 200 more years or so until effective colonialization so a lot of stuff can happen in europe still given a couple more players and possible alliances forming...
if new players want to join next session i would suggect central nations(if therion does not mind) as to provide some challange to therion and keep the english in check (english is in position to vassal ALL central europe if no human there),west germans and dutch are certanlly under english sphere of influence at the moment and even north itally seems "available" to them.
venice in itally alone can not do much yet, not as english could, providing that they still have to vassal most of itally still and thus taking quiet some time to do so.
what central nation has good potential and well positioned at least for defensive measure?
venice in itally alone can not do much yet, not as english could, providing that they still have to vassal most of itally still and thus taking quiet some time to do so.
what central nation has good potential and well positioned at least for defensive measure?
If there are many players who want to play, I would not have problems with starting again. France and Portugal are gone, Brandenburg is in a very hard position and Venice seems to be having BB wars. The lack of these nations kills off much of the flavour of the game.
In any case, that leaves us with England, Castile, Austria, OE, Moscow, Sweden and maybe Poland. I do not know what central European power can challenge England apart from Austria. However she needs to expand quickly and that is difficult on VH. Maybe Martin can ditch Venice for OE or Austria if he wants to. This will leave rich Italy as a possible region for expansion for both Austria and Spain. Maybe Italy can be made off-limits to England for some time since he is also more likely to get first, judging from the current situation.
In any case, that leaves us with England, Castile, Austria, OE, Moscow, Sweden and maybe Poland. I do not know what central European power can challenge England apart from Austria. However she needs to expand quickly and that is difficult on VH. Maybe Martin can ditch Venice for OE or Austria if he wants to. This will leave rich Italy as a possible region for expansion for both Austria and Spain. Maybe Italy can be made off-limits to England for some time since he is also more likely to get first, judging from the current situation.
To be honest, the Ottomans are crazy easy to play. Once Byzantium was annexed and I got 300 cash, free conversions and a CoT, things were rolling. Of the provinces I took, only 2 were not cores. But in about 10-20 years all the Ottoman cores will be taken I reckon, so then the badboy may start to rise a bit.
I disagree. I like the variation. And do remember that if France are annexed, all the French minors can form it again. France is not killed so easily.
As for BB, they are not dead yet. Some human or heavy AI help will get Poland and their allies good. Perhaps Austria or even Ottomans, provided that these players feel generous.
Concerning Venice, they did some fast expansion. Those bb wars will soon wear off, once the enemies get vassalized.
I wouldn't mind a restart seeing the state Sweden is in, but that is selfish of me. One question though, Sweden lacks cores for finland, why?