Chinese units suck

[currylambchop]

They start with 2 pips and are always behind western even at the start of the game, when western is garbage. Their highest level infantry unit is literally worse than nomadic infantry.

EDIT: why it is worse than nomadic infantry? Because nomadic has 4 morale pips but Chinese has 3, and morale pips are the most important.

 

[Shrek1453]

Factually incorrect. Chinese infantry is better or equal to Western infantry up to tech 23(?). It really falls off after tech 29.
The only tech where Nomadic infantry is better than Chinese infantry is tech 1-4, which absolutely makes sense in that it follows the "Nomadic is great early game" logic.

Do your research before whining.

 

[currylambchop]

Factually incorrect. Chinese infantry is better or equal to Western infantry up to tech 23(?). It really falls off after tech 29.
The only tech where Nomadic infantry is better than Chinese infantry is tech 1-4, which absolutely makes sense in that it follows the "Nomadic is great early game" logic.

Do your research before whining.

At tech 30 nomadic has 20 pip infantry and Chinese has 20 pip infantry too. But the nomads have more morale pips and the Chinese have fire pips. If u knew how the combat works then you’d know morale pips are way more important.

 

[Evethor]

Western tech group is supposed to end up ahead of the others.

It`s a rigid system I hope they change in EU5 but for now it`s what you have.
So you have to learn to live with it.

 

[currylambchop]

Western tech group is supposed to end up ahead of the others.

It`s a rigid system I hope they change in EU5 but for now it`s what you have.
So you have to learn to live with it.

I don’t mind that the westerners beat the Chinese. just weird That they have less Morale pips than even Native Americans.

 

[AvengedK1ng]

I don’t mind that the westerners beat the Chinese. just weird That they have less Morale pips than even Native Americans.

Chinese wars be like 2000 million soldiers died, 50 billion civilians eaten, strategic tang victory

If you buff chinese units you buff Ming, same with how merc changes buffed ming, estate changes buffed ming, fort changes buffed ming, the province WS cost changes buffed ming, and then we found out the previous ming nerf got undone by this latest universal mechanic change

 

[delusonalism_]

chinese units are fine. they end up at par with basically every other unit group except western in the late game. i would appreciate more units being put into their progression so there arent massive spikes every 5 techs or so though.

if any tech groups units are out of line its polynesian / aboriginal units. they hit western tech 30 infantry unit quality at mil tech 26. i know this wont ever be relevant to a single player campaign where youre not playing them, but if thats the logic that was used to give them such an advantage in pips i do not know why the same logic wasnt also applied to the american tech groups

its worth noting that pip discrepancies late game arent as influential as they are early - anatolian infantry having an extra pip at tech 3 over western + eastern units is a much greater advantage than anything seen in the late game

 

[Shrek1453]

At tech 30 nomadic has 20 pip infantry and Chinese has 20 pip infantry too. But the nomads have more morale pips and the Chinese have fire pips. If u knew how the combat works then you’d know morale pips are way more important.

At tech 30 infantry pips mean jack shit. I've got over 1.5k hours in EU4 MP, most of it at least semi-competitive. I know exactly how combat works and I know that the 1 morale pip difference at tech 30 makes an impact on the outcome of combat roughly equivalent to the impact that me farting makes on global warming.

Get off your high horse, lmao.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I know exactly how combat works and I know that the 1 morale pip difference at tech 30 makes an impact on the outcome of combat roughly equivalent to the impact that me farting makes on global warming.

You're overselling it a bit. It's not a strict one pip advantage, it's the marginal difference in combat output from a unit that has one extra morale pip compared to an extra pip elsewhere, while at equal pips. So it's even less relevant than what you're saying.

In vanilla, anyway. The total conversion mod Anbennar does much more extreme pip distributions, and has species modifiers to fire/shock whereby those distributions start to become quite noticeable. But it's really not a thing in vanilla outside of early game, generally.

Vanilla pip differentials used to be huge, way back before units got rebalanced between tech groups so that westernization wasn't forced to be competitive (outside of foreign recruit shenanigans). Pip difference could easily be 10-20+, with pip counts getting above 50 IIRC. Pretty different setup from now.

 

[BlazeKnight_]

Factually incorrect. Chinese infantry is better or equal to Western infantry up to tech 23(?). It really falls off after tech 29.
The only tech where Nomadic infantry is better than Chinese infantry is tech 1-4, which absolutely makes sense in that it follows the "Nomadic is great early game" logic.

Do your research before whining.

Actually no, like the op said, Chinese infantry has garbage pip distribution. While their total number of pips is okay, for whatever reason Chinese has less morale pips than other groups. They are actually the only group with 3/3 pips on Offensive/Defensive Morale. All other groups have at least 4/3 or 4/4.

I'm pretty sure this is because PDX devs do not even understand their own combat, and just randomly assigned pips. I mean, there are unit upgrades in this game that actually downgrade your units. But even then Chinese still has many oddities that shows its neglect. Like how they are seemingly "missing" a unit upgrade around the low 20s (the only group similarly missing an upgrade is the Aboriginal/Polynesian, which we all know comes from the patch who's name shall not be spoken, and Native Americans, which.... they are Native Americans).

And... unit pips do matter. If I'm not an idiot, it should basically equal having an extra general pip, or dice roll.

Obviously having -1 or -2 Roll from general pips or walking into terrain/rivers is not a death sentence. But it does make a difference that must be respected.


Oh, right. I have no idea how this all works in 1.33 combat. But, its trash anyways, seen by the numerous forum and reddit posts (oof).