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Jaevelklein

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Background: Genghis Khan came with troops of over 100,000. He placed a Mongol emperor upon the jade throne. Shit happens and he loses the jade throne to another dynasty. The new emperor declares a tributary war on Genghis heir and the Mongol Empire becomes a tributary of China.

I'm the emperor of Abyssinia, controlling all of Africa, Arabia, the middle east, Central Asia and stretching through the Byzantine into the middle of Europe. I can muster 370,000 soldiers.

Suddenly an event pops up: The Chinese emperor thinks I should become one of his tributary states. Of course I refuse such an absurd claim. The Western Protectorate declares a war on me with an army of 170,000 [20,000 normal + rest event troops]. He calls in the Mongol Empire and their 100,000 soldiers to assist him, making it 370,000 versus 270.000. I had a non-aggression pact with the Mongol Empire, who was matrilineally married to one of my dynasty members. But despite this, he's like: "Yeah, instead of breaking free and negotiating with the Emperor of Abyssinia, I'm just gonna throw the non-aggression pact in the trashcan and join the Chinese, who forced me to become a tributary state, to force Abyssinia into a tributary state as well."

I'm basically Napoleon Bonaparte 500 years early and yet The Western Protectorate dares to point a finger at me and my grand empire? I feared in advance that this day would come, as he had successfully won a war against the Mongol Empire earlier. And should I fall, that would mean the end for the rest of the world as well. The thing is that normal AI does not work this way. They do not dare to declare wars against foes much stronger than them. But the Western Protectorate did not give a flying fuck, just taking a cup of tea while sending out some randomly spawned doomstacks on me.

My soldiers are marching from the utter ends of the empire to meet the incoming legions. "For mother Abyssinia!" they were singing as they marched from Spain to Persia. I send some of my troops towards Tartaria to siege down parts of the traitorous Mongol Empire. 10 counties sieged down. 0% warscore gained. The Chinese empire sieges down a county to the most far east part of my empire. Immediately -10% warscore. My troops are still marching while he takes county after county. Apparently he just laughed at me taking down his tributary states. Not even 1% warscore gained. Whereas each of my most remote Viceroy vassals who I, to be honest, couldn't care less about, costed me about -10% per county sieged. He could take all of Daylam. All of Persia. All of Khorasan. I would not care. Constantinople is safe and so are all of my other personally owned counties. Not a single man has fallen in battle. Their morale is high. War is coming. Victory will be ours. Or so I thought...

Having taken down about 5-6 counties in central asia, The Chinese now has -60% warscore on me. And it's constantly ticking. My army finally arrives. I send a doomstack of 60,000 on his 30,000. Despite losing some men to attrition, I'm tearing them apart completely. 0% warscore gained. I destroy another legion of his. 0% warscore gained. It ticks more. -70%, -80% all because the Chinese have sieged down a couple more of my viceroy's counties in Central Asia. I tried to reclaim my occupied territories from the Chinese - but all for naught. No warscore gained. Yet for each county I lost, it just continued going downhill.

That's when it finally reached -99%. I was like "Oh my god, am i seriously gonna become a tributary state while having 300,000 soldiers alive [-70,000] and the Chinese have 100,000 [-170,000]? Just because they took down a few counties in central asia?" The Western Protectorate at least thought so, so they sent me the terms of surrender at -99%. Which I of course refused. "Bullshit, complete bullshit!" I uttered to myself. I launched my armies far into enemy territory. Occupying his tributaries didn't give me warscore. Breaking his army didn't give me warscore. Neither did reclaiming my lost counties. It was locked down and it could end within a matter of seconds. It was one tick away from -100%.

So I sent an army of 100,000 retinues marching towards the Western Protectorate's main holdings. He had like 6 counties. One after one I sieged them down through the assault option. Still locked. My warscore did not go up. Until... I finally took down the last county. Then it went from -64% [it had somehow decreased from -99% to -64%] to +100% in one instant.

I don't think this is how the algorithm should work and should therefore be looked over. Thanks for reading.
 
Last edited:

Matoro_TBS

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Nice writing! Also, sounds incredibly bugged. I feel like its pretty common that paradox "endgame" stuff is a little broken, probably just because it isn't played as much and thus the balance problems and bugs don't get reported as much.
Maybe you should focus on getting your dynasty on Chinese throne, just out of spite?
 

Naughtius Maximus

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Nope. That's how it goes. Any county in your realm is worth the same as any other, even if it's a steppe province with 13k supply.

Hence why when I get huge I immediately begin extorting tribute off nomads. Keeps my vassals from expanding into the godforsaken Stepppes and forcing me to fight at -99 warscore in 13k supply territory.
 

SigurdStormhand

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The warscore doesn't scale well with realm size - for large realms the Chinese can bite off a small chunk and get to theoretical 100% very quickly. I had the same issue as the roman Empire. It sounds like you were winning all the battles so if you still had negative warscore it's because he still had some counties occupied.

The Key with fighting off the Chinese is to not panic, because they can't win by occupation until the 3-year mark, and to stay defensive. Beat back the armies, then liberate every province. You win with positive battle score and ticking score from having no counties occupied.

Oh, and before you ask, no, warscore doesn't not reset to 0 if he manages to re-occupy one county.

Or you could do what you did - which is achieve 100% occupation on the Western Protectorate.
 

Kipman2000

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it's fair enough that all counties are worth the same when it comes to occupation and war score, but it sounds a bit "not right" that liberating that one single last county makes the war score go from -64% to +100%. One county shouldn't have that much of an impact if you ask me
 

SigurdStormhand

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it's fair enough that all counties are worth the same when it comes to occupation and war score, but it sounds a bit "not right" that liberating that one single last county makes the war score go from -64% to +100%. One county shouldn't have that much of an impact if you ask me

It's not that he liberated a county, it's that he 100% occupied the Attacker's Holdings.
 

Dimitri Cosmos

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CK2 has the same problem as all strategy games. The AI is playing against the player instead of playing for themselves. Hence, the game just throws in sand in your wheels from time, which can be incredibly frustrating at times. I wouldn't be surprised if there's some kind of code in the game that "checks, if you are doing too good" and then "tries to ruin it". I don't know, maybe it's just my bias, but some hindrances seem more than just random. Either way, CK2 gameplay is basically a constant struggle to maintain order in the chaos that the game creates.

And your example is the worst example of it. Frustrating, I agree.