Chinese Air Force

[El Jojo]

So I'm planning to do my annual Nat Chi game.

Last time I went very "brute force", Infantry-based and went on conquering Japan, then USSR and finally Germany by 1944, I managed to exhaust my manpower though, reaching 0 and staying there for most of the last year. You see I had no airforce so the Luftwaffe really went to town, thank god I had more chinese than they had bombs.

So this time I'd like to develop and use an airforce, and that's where I need advice.
Which way would you go in researching and building an airforce as Nat Chi ?
I'm thinking of MR and TAC, INT/CAS do not have the range for extended warfare in Asia and when I'll meet a strong network of airbases I'll be in Europe. Priority on MR since the main goal is to protect my land forces from last game slaughter.

During the reconquest of Manchuria and Korea I may still skip the airforce because Japan does not have that many planes and they're not yet that efficient in 37-39. But should I start building planes from 36 to have some practicals (even if I just hide them) ? Just researching the techs and start production in 39 possible or will it take years to build my first division?

In gameplay, I was a bit afraid of the added micromanagement, always moving div from airbases to airbases, changing missions every month etc. How do you manage that (or do I have to suck up my laziness and deal with it) ? I just read in another thread that dedicated Ai-controlled air groups do not work well.

Thanks for your plans!

 

[Kovax]

You start out with one INT and one TAC in 1936. The lone INT isn't very useful for taking on the Japanese because its ground attack abilities are poor, and it will be both out-teched and outnumbered by the Japanese planes. In my last game with Nat. Chi., I built a second INT, and 2xINT was sufficient to hammer any Japanese bombers which strayed out of the cover offered by their own INT, but not enough to take on the Japanese fighters. Essentially, I had to leave the skies above the coastal provinces to the Japanese airforce, but dominated everything inland. Once I beefed that up to 3xINT, and put enough Leadership into air techs and doctrines, I was able to go toe-to-toe with the Japanese fighters on roughly even terms. Any more IC investment than that would have reduced the amount of INF I fielded by a significant amount, which I did not feel comfortable in doing. After you gain the clear upper hand in the ground war on the mainland, it's probably time to start investing in MR instead.

Micromanaging one group of 2xINT isn't all that big a deal, and I certainly can't trust the AI not to send it up against Japanese 3xINT groups and have it shot to pieces. Same with the lone TAC, where you need to keep it out of reach of the Japanese airfields and carrier groups, or you WILL lose it.

 

[Rocksoviet]

I also play NAT CHI quite a bit.

And last time I exploited to make a huge air force and bombed the Soviets out of manpower. The catch is sacrificing land force which will be comprised of pretty much ALL RESERVE division constructed on 1/3 or 1/4 strength and in batches. between batch are time for all out airforce construction, which you can lower cost by stacking up practicals and have the grand air force buff by 1943 with like 40 INT and 35 TAC.

With Unified China and its surrundings subdued, you really have a lot of leadership and IC to create a large airforce.

 

[Lord Curlyton]

Yeah creating a large airforce with Nat China isn't really a problem. Just conquer the warlords, including Sinkiang (giving you the valuable direct land route to Soviet resource trades), beef up on MIL divs to scare the Japanese AI into not attacking, and then work on an airforce. If I let them wait, by '38-'39 I can easily field a group or 2 of 3xTAC plus 12 or so INT, at which point I can get things going and pound the Japanese CAGs and land air into dirt while I hold the line/slowly advance until I get my MIL upgraded and properly supported. If I feel real ballsy I try and PL some Heavy Armor (3 or 4 brigades will be plenty) to pile drive the Jap land forces at the start and let it be a rolling thunder advance into Manchuria. That or I try and rush out a massive pack of DD/CL so I can safely invade mainland ports to speed things on their way.

As I recall, a unified China sans Manchuria yields a roughly self-supporting 100 IC (mid-90's I think) with 22 LS, putting you at least on par with Italy or Japan.

 

[El Jojo]

Ok thanks, it seems I was really too focussed on land forces last time, since it looks reasonnably easy to build a strong airforce as China, from your reports.
Though it seems going MIL instead of INF makes it easier, freeing IC, even allowing you to build a reasonnable fleet ?

How do you stack up practicals before building wings ?

 

[Kovax]

There is no way to build up Practicals except for actually producing units. Fortunately, the Practical gain for building your first INT will provide a significant drop in the cost and time for the second.

I ended up building a heap of separate brigades, and boosting all of the existing 2xINF and 2xMIL in the northern half of China to 3x, before churning out entire divisions of 3x. In most attacks, I try to put both INF and MIL into the fray, where the MIL seems to get hit hardest and ends up becoming "armor" for my regular Infantry. While the battered MIL is sitting back and recovering, I've got the reasonably intact INF with a fresh bunch of MIL advancing to go at it again.

I experimented with adding a brigade of AC to my existing CAV, but the results were so-so. LARM might be better, but the poor terrain and worse infrastructure in the North hardly justify the expense. Next time, I'm sticking with INF and MIL.

 

[El Jojo]

Right now (sept 37) my INT are getting destroyed by the japanese, I'll guess it was a bit too early to bring them out (and yes I had upgraded them, techs and doctrines).

Yeah the infra is quite bad in Manchuria, I do put a few ART brigades there and there to help but I learned the hard way not to overdo it. I'm using mostly INF though, MIL covers the port.

 

[Lord Curlyton]

You can challenge the Japs by '37, but you really need until late-'38 or so to dominate them. Air techs are something the Jap AI doesn't skimp on so at best you're hoping for parity in doctrines and techs, which means that numbers do the job. Also, upgrading your airbases helps too as it makes repairs easier (I like Lvl 8 at least for major airfields), and keep in mind that Japan likely has far better leaders to put in the air than you do at the start. As long as you are able to inflict damage on the land air, you'll be fine. And after a little XP, you can start jumping CAGs.

Also, if you are willing to devote the IC to 3 or so, TRN can realllly help supply an offensive in Manchuria.

 

[El Jojo]

Building 3 TRN by 38 is a big investment... especially since Manchuria should have felt by then.
I'm going to try to have a real counter airforce for end of 39 to dominate Japanese skies from Busan, and then I'll see if I can add air drops to speed up the isles invasions (I used to do it for Taiwan while the japanese airforce was busing bombing elsewhere.

While we're here, any tips on the invasion on the japanese home islands ? I did it with mass transports fleets invading from all sides, half were destroyed but what managed to land was enough. Still it's not very elegant

 

[Lord Curlyton]

Depends on your timetable. If you can pump out a solid fleet of 30 or so CL/DD you can use that as a shield while you land in force on mainland Japan. Once that is done its just a matter of mopping up. However, fitting the fleet, an airforce, AND some MAR into the mix usually means '41 or so for me, but then I can also just turn the AI on and wait 3 years when I start the war (assuming I got Sinkiang fast enough so USSR can feed me).

 

[El Jojo]

Yes, I played a big chunk yesterday and fitting a fleet and an airforce in the planning is not possible if you want to do it quick. So I went with Air superiority and multiple landings. Japan surrendered in august 39 (before the war started in the west).
I'll take a few years of peace to get ready for a bigger opponent

 

[21oliver]

Ive played alot of Nat China lately. I always delete all land forces at the games start. I generally build INFx3 or INFx3/ARTx1 and have managed to take all of China (incl. Sinkiang and Tibet) before Jul 1937. What ive been playing around with is staying unfactioned or joining the Allies or Axis (havent tried the Comintern yet). I usually take Siam/Australia and New Zealand. I havent played much past that in awhile, but i used to land one good amphib in Korea and hit the Japanese forces from two sides. Japan cant match your numbers so if you can remain anywhere near them tech/doctrine wise your good. I usually build infra before i go at them.

 

[El Jojo]

Why delete all the land forces ? You have some infantry and the militia can be used to cover the ports. Indeed, a simple INF*3 + INF*3/ART are good enough, since by focussing on infantry techs you can end up with better infantry than the japanse by 37.

I never had to amphibious assault Korea, usually if I follow the manchurian coast, then set in the north korean mountains I manage to trap most of Japan forces in Manchuria, left over forces in Korea are no match after that.

Staying unaligned is fun, you can end the war without being a part of it, like a huge sideshow. I go Afghanistan / Persia / Turkey and then invade both axis and comintern from there.

 

[themousemaster]

May I recommend the wiki guide that I set up for NatChi?

Check my sig