China vs Japan, your thoughts

[21oliver]

Just interested in hearing your preferences and styles when playing National China vs Japan.

Do you join a faction? or go it alone?

Do you invest alot in tech stealing? or not...

Do you go to war on Jul 1, 1937? or do you overload the border preventing from Marco Polo from firing and go to war at a later date?

What is your strategy to invade the Japanese mainland?

 

[Vithralia]

Usually I join the Allies or stay neutral, I steal techs from France and Britain until I surpass them, and I usually wait for Germany to invade Poland before sending a DoW to Japan.

As for invading the mainland, I usually land around the Nagasaki area (I think. It's that island directly below Korea and a bit to the left), then cross the straight to the island on the right before invading the larger island. Probably not the most efficient or quickest way, but it works for me.

 

[21oliver]

What type of naval forces do you use at that point? How many and what types of troops are you landing with? Do you send reinforcements through an already captured port or do you try and grab multiple ports etc... ?

Im on a China kick lately playing it out many different ways.

 

[Vithralia]

My fleet usually consists of a battleship, 2 battlecruisers, two heavy cruisers, and 5-7 destroyers, but because the distance from Korea to Japan is so small (well, that and the fact that in vanilla TFH researching naval techs is a bit of a pain), I usually just end up covering my transports with a few screens and 3-6 wings of naval bombers.

I either land with a corps or two of infantry (motorized or just regular foot infantry) adjacent to the port, or I just land paratroopers onto the port directly. Once I have a foothold, I send in 3 more corps, at least one of them being armoured. In my games, Japan usually doesn't have many land troops left since they've all been captured in Manchuria (or wasted trying to retake Taiwan), so 1 army is usually enough for me.

I find that capturing one port is enough, but any additional ports help too, I guess. They have to cross a straight in order to retake the island I use as a staging ground, so the ports are fairly safe from being retaken.

 

[Less]

Faction is optional, but I'd definitely want to at least align to allies for licenses. Going Comintern/Axis seems too gamey (not sure if Axis is even possible).

I'd only invest in tech stealing vs. France, and only because it costs basically nothing. Tech stealing pretty much never pays off for me. You need officers way more, especially when you upgrade militia to infantry.

Invade Japan with Paratroopers. License them and the air Transports from USA.

 

[21oliver]

want to at least align to allies for licenses

You can get licenses faster by aligning to the Axis, your in their corner. I just licensed some LC's very early in 1936.

Going Comintern/Axis seems too gamey (not sure if Axis is even possible).

Axis is definitely possible.

I'd only invest in tech stealing vs. France, and only because it costs basically nothing. Tech stealing pretty much never pays off for me. You need officers way more, especially when you upgrade militia to infantry.

If I do it I tend to go all in, All majors except for the Soviets. And I never try and kill spies. I find it more effective myself to just keep producing alot of spies and maintaining 10 on tech stealing, then to try and half and half or alternate.

Invade Japan with Paratroopers. License them and the air Transports from USA.

Conquering via Paradrops is considered Gamey! First off too expensive and has minimal use (Para as opposed to other divisions) also how and where are you hitting? Most of Japans ports are usually covered.

 

[Vithralia]

What mod are you playing, if any? IIRC in vanilla TFH you start in the middle, slightly towards the Axis. It is possible to go Axis though, if you stop Japan from firing the Marco Polo Bridge Incident.

 

[_karl_]

Historically speaking, an Axis National China makes perfect sense, it's not Gamey at all. The Guomindang is a far-right party, which got strongly influenced by Mussolini. The only reason they haven't joined the Axis is because the position was already taken by Japan. But History could perfectly have taken another way. By the way, if you've looked at the DD of HoI IV, you'll notice that in the decision trees (I don't remember how they've called them) Germany does have a major choice to make between China and Japan.
However I've hearded that an Axis China can sometimes produce some bugs since China and Japan were hardcoded to hate each other. I've not seen any of those bugs by my own eyes, though. What I've seen is that then, if Japan can not eat a bit of China, they are not strong enough to face the US.
A Comintern Nat China becomes a bit weirder, but still not completely crazy. Stalin was a strong support of the Guomindang, and sent instructions for the Chinese communist to join the Guomindang and be very nice with them. It only ended once Chang-Kai-Shek decided it was a good time to slaughter all those communists. Playing National China, you could perfectly decide not to slaughter the communists. The only problem is that it's a decision you would have had to take a few years before 1936. Otherwise you have to imagine some kind of unexpected reconciliation.

 

[21oliver]

What mod are you playing, if any? IIRC in vanilla TFH you start in the middle, slightly towards the Axis. It is possible to go Axis though, if you stop Japan from firing the Marco Polo Bridge Incident.

Im playing Vanilla. Yeah they are kind of in the middle but they ae Axis leaning because of their Government, its more natural. If you want to stay neutral but buy PLs go Axis. As I said within a few months I easily can buy from Japan, just be aligning to the Axis.

 

[Yearzero]

Faction or not would depend on my long-term goals, I usually ended up joining the Allies especially if the war drags on long enough and Japan attacks the US, or going for some nice strategic modifiers (And a deliciously bastardized Cyrillic font) by joining the Comintern, I went Axis once before but I ended up botching that game due to newbie mistakes

I usually do tech-steal, mostly from France, Italy, Japan and sometimes the United Kingdom, since they have most of necessities I need for any post-Japan operations, but once I stop stealing them after a while due to the closing research gap on my part I stop tech-stealing and focus on other missions, the Germans will have a lot of techs, but very efficient counterespionage and the Americans even moreso so they hog up more leadership than the others, I don't bother stealing from the Soviets anymore since I very rarely ever got anything good from them in my experience (And after Downfall you get at least 10 more LS than them)

Played with both being Marco Polo firing and attacking them first instead, if I try to postpone Marco Polo it's usually to allow myself to finish the Civil War (Bad terrain really can bog things down, and I always attack Yunnan and Guangxi before Xibei...) or finish upgrading my units.

I almost always try to wear down the IJN to impotence with my own Navy and/or Navs first to reduce their threat to my landing forces, so they don't send countless soldiers to Davy Jones locker, the aspect of playing naval catch-up to Japan is one of my favorite parts as playing Nationalist China.

 

[21oliver]

I always go for Comm China first and Xibei 2nd.... Comm China can and will join the Comintern and if you wait too long so will Sinkiang so I try and grab them all quick.

 

[Yearzero]

Forgot to mention, I usually go after the Communists first aswell even though I've usually seen them go Allied more than Comintern due to Japan attacking them after Pearl Harbor when I play any other nation (I never let them live very long either as Japan) I simply go for them first since their IC and manpower are the strongest among the warlord states allowing me to rapidly expand my industrial base in time to build more stuff to throw at Hirohito, in more recent games as Nationalist China I try to give more focus to the San Ma's if only to secure Sinkiang before it does go Soviet (Governor Sheng Shicai was a member of their party after all)

As for invading Japan itself, my favorite port to land at apart from Hiroshima and Nagasaki would be Kanazawa due to it's prime location of the back of the Black Dragon

 

[Magnus Imperator Rex]

First off first: build a HUGE land army as Japan.

I declare war on China as Japan on the 7th july 37.

Proceed to VP conquer China quickly to seize the coast. Also conquer Siam for resources. Build up until 39 and attack Soviets in january '39. In sept. 39, VP conquer the rest of China, it will fall by the end of the year. By 1940, you will be deep in Siberia. Also keep on expanding the navy. In 1943 attack the western allies and rule the Pacific and Asia. In 1945, go after the continental USA.

 

[yamato2cz]

Just interested in hearing your preferences and styles when playing National China vs Japan.

Do you join a faction? or go it alone?

Do you invest alot in tech stealing? or not...

Do you go to war on Jul 1, 1937? or do you overload the border preventing from Marco Polo from firing and go to war at a later date?

What is your strategy to invade the Japanese mainland?

personally, i go for full infantry + defensive techs garrisons. means 6 techs for infantry and 4 for garrison. + industrial production and education. after unity wars i start with research of CLs-to 38 year minimaly since those will be everything i will have for long time, ofc, i build full 16 hull fleet of them before invasion as defence units for my transports. LS is scare, due to officer requirements, but i can managa 140% even before war with japan and have up to date infantry. invasion is done in one after another harbor, always supported by air units and fleets of CLs which you will spit at 1 per 4 IC per 200 days if you really rush them.

 

[MagnusStultus]

I'm not that good but I found that letting the Kwangtung Theatre be controlled by the ai did absolute wonders for the conquest of China.

 

[yamato2cz]

I'm not that good but I found that letting the Kwangtung Theatre be controlled by the ai did absolute wonders for the conquest of China.

initial force of AI controlled china will be defeated by initial force of AI japan. AI china is just too ineffective.

 

[21oliver]

I myself am talking about CHINA vs Japan. I also found that it is very easy earlier on to get PL's from Japan, that means LC, CLs, aircraft if i decide to go that route, or i build my own and do it the hard way.

 

[yamato2cz]

I myself am talking about CHINA vs Japan. I also found that it is very easy earlier on to get PL's from Japan, that means LC, CLs, aircraft if i decide to go that route, or i build my own and do it the hard way.

better use the money for deals with US-you can get PL from US them.way WAY better.

 

[21oliver]

What you want is faster. As China my nation is already fascist leaning. I have an Axis leaning Minister. If i align to Germany within a few months I am able to buy PLs from Japan (early 1936) and have them ready by Jul 1 1937 if i need them.

 

[yamato2cz]

What you want is faster. As China my nation is already fascist leaning. I have an Axis leaning Minister. If i align to Germany within a few months I am able to buy PLs from Japan (early 1936) and have them ready by Jul 1 1937 if i need them.

you can have first PL from US by half of 36 only due to trade agreements. then you can buy LARGE amounts of rares you will need after the war starts and your convoys would be otherwise destroyed.