China is crazy OP

[AKAGIxxKAGA]

China has more factories than most European nations now. But the fact is China can't produce enough infantry Eq. during the WW2.
If you want to slow down the war, the best way is to add a debuff idea to Japan, like "Complicated Strategy"; "Friction between the IJA and IJN forces", and remove it when Japan declare war to the US.

I'm not a native English speaker, sorry for my bad English.

 

[Zwirbaum]

TBH CzechOPslovakia is OP as well. (That basically extents to all DoD countries)

 

[Thomir]

Well, I think it forces the Japanese player to start the war in China as soon as possible, because otherwise each passing moth just makes the chinese army increasingly strong. With infinite manpower pool and now infinite gun supply conquering China will be tedious, so I would not blame japanese player for wanting to deal with the issue asap.

And this is the worst what could happen to MP games: Japan spiking the world tension early because it is forced to attack China like this.

Way to go Paradox, instead boosting AI so that it does not lose like crazy better just spam factories in China. China will still lose, but now you just force Japan to attack early, gj!

 

[Had a dad]

TBH CzechOPslovakia is OP as well. (That basically extents to all DoD countries)

eh... it'll be interesting to see, as there are other mechanics in place...

 

[Surimi]

The thing is, China is huge. While in real terms it was in the very early stages of industrialisation, in reality the sheer size means that should probably translate into a decent amount of factories. Sure, China couldn't produce enough infantry equipment.. it also had an army size which peaked at nearly 4 million and suffered massive losses throughout the war, so there was a pretty high demand for equipment.

That said, China needs the British Raj treatment. The game isn't really equipped to model the limitations on peak army size versus total manpower, so the best compromise is probably to curb China's manpower quite a bit so that reaching historical losses should require scraping the barrel (which pretty much happened).

Debuffing Japan seems a bit railroady for my liking, but it's a possibility.

 

[Zwirbaum]

eh... it'll be interesting to see, as there are other mechanics in place...

Because getting country that can have 0% Consumer Goods, -15(35 with continuous focus)% fighter cost, -5% Tank, Infantry Equipment Cost, -10% Ship Cost, +10% Defense on Core Territory and -5% Research Time as well is totally not OP.

 

[Admiral Piett]

I assume it was just a balancing decision to punish people that procrastinate the 2nd Sino-Japanese War. If one attacks in mid-1937 then the difference will be pretty negligible. If one sits on it for longer things will start to snowball.

 

[Had a dad]

Because getting country that can have 0% Consumer Goods, -15(35 with continuous focus)% fighter cost, -5% Tank, Infantry Equipment Cost, -10% Ship Cost, +10% Defense on Core Territory and -5% Research Time as well is totally not OP.

depends how you look at it. Does it make it easier, sure... but does it make it so the country can do a WC without extreme cheese?

 

[caedussl]

Once East/Southeast Asia gets a look (hopefully next patch...), maybe issues like this will be fixed with unique focus trees. Still, China (Republic of, at least) should have had a focus tree to start. I would have rather had China have one at the start and us get Poland in DoD then having to wait till at least 1.5 for China.

 

[Thomir]

I assume it was just a balancing decision to punish people that procrastinate the 2nd Sino-Japanese War. If one attacks in mid-1937 then the difference will be pretty negligible. If one sits on it for longer things will start to snowball.

They also increased base stock of equipment, so basically you can also just disable all japanese national focuses apart from Chinese Border Incident and War with China at the beginning of the game.

And if anyone thinks that Japan will have problems with conquering the buffed China: no, it will not have any problems. It will just be done asap and in turn it will boost Japan's industry. So if the devs wanted to slow Japan somehow it's gonna have opposite effect and just will make the game more scripted for japanese players. Why didn't they take example from mods like BICE, the best thing I have seen to tune down Japan was to lower the starting division count (basically deletingthe garrisons or making them much smaller.). This way Japan had to spend some time building up what gave the chinese time to prepare too. Felt much more natural than making China industrial behemoth

 

[Dalnar]

Well, considering just the Skoda plant did manufacture like 1/3 of Reich's output during WW2, it's pretty hard to put that into the game. You do not have to look on CZE as OP country, you have to look on it as future gains for Germany. Unfortunately, proper implementation would require highproduction / no manpower Protectorate land leasing stuff to Germany, but well they are slowly going there.

 

[Quantum_AI]

I wish they would implement specialised factories. So a country like China could start with 10 rifle factories making a million rifles a year and zero tank factories. Whereas the Czechs could get a single rifle factory + a single tank factory to represent their IRL production. A rifle factory would be cheap to build while a tank factory could take maybe 2 years to build. Would give more incentive to lend lease as well. But alas, I know it's never gonna happen.

 

[Porkman]

This is what happens when you don't have a robust enough logistics model.

 

[AKAGIxxKAGA]

The thing is, China is huge. While in real terms it was in the very early stages of industrialisation, in reality the sheer size means that should probably translate into a decent amount of factories. Sure, China couldn't produce enough infantry equipment.. it also had an army size which peaked at nearly 4 million and suffered massive losses throughout the war, so there was a pretty high demand for equipment.

That said, China needs the British Raj treatment. The game isn't really equipped to model the limitations on peak army size versus total manpower, so the best compromise is probably to curb China's manpower quite a bit so that reaching historical losses should require scraping the barrel (which pretty much happened).

Debuffing Japan seems a bit railroady for my liking, but it's a possibility.

As an agricultural nation, China factories only had produced nearly 1,000,000 rifles during 8 years

 

[AKAGIxxKAGA]

I wish they would implement specialised factories. So a country like China could start with 10 rifle factories making a million rifles a year and zero tank factories. Whereas the Czechs could get a single rifle factory + a single tank factory to represent their IRL production. A rifle factory would be cheap to build while a tank factory could take maybe 2 years to build. Would give more incentive to lend lease as well. But alas, I know it's never gonna happen.

I think China should start with 5 rifle factories produce 50k rifles a year, and China can buy rifles from US

Type 24 / Type Zhongzheng
Produced 1935–1950
No. built 500,000–600,000[1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiang_Kai-shek_rifle#cite_note-History-1

 

[Telenil]

Well, I think it forces the Japanese player to start the war in China as soon as possible, because otherwise each passing moth just makes the chinese army increasingly strong. With infinite manpower pool and now infinite gun supply conquering China will be tedious, so I would not blame japanese player for wanting to deal with the issue asap.

And this is the worst what could happen to MP games: Japan spiking the world tension early because it is forced to attack China like this.

Way to go Paradox, instead boosting AI so that it does not lose like crazy better just spam factories in China. China will still lose, but now you just force Japan to attack early, gj!

What's the problem with that? If the game is balanced around the idea that Japan needs to attack at the early, historical time, I count that as a plus.

Maybe you can argue that world tension increases too fast in the early game, but that's quite a different issue.

 

[Thomir]

What's the problem with that? If the game is balanced around the idea that Japan needs to attack at the early, historical time, I count that as a plus.

Maybe you can argue that world tension increases too fast in the early game, but that's quite a different issue.

Historical time would be July 7, 1937, not May 1936, as it should now be done in every game.

Also if it comes to world tension increase: conquest of China takes a month or two, half a year if you have bad luck. So if you go to war in May 1936 it ends before 1937. And after you annex/puppet China it's over 50 world tension and your game is over, because American player has just awoken his industry. You can of course just wait and start the sino-japanese war in 1938 for example, but thanks to buffing China you'd get bogged down unable to divide your forces to get China and Dutch East Indias at the same time.

What annoys me is that Paradox again took the easiest way out, which a also bad choice. They just added equipment and factories. There are several great mods slowing Japanese conquest (and this is all about slowing japanese conquest of China) by using events and focuses that add National Unity, moving factories to west China, fortifying bigger cities and making them very hard to take. This way the war moves from plains in the east China to mountains and deserts in east, south and north China. And that makes Japan bleed out of attrition and slows them down considerably boosting the chinese defences.
The war lasts longer, is harder and much more fun for Japan player.

 

[Keioel]

Finally!

 

[Antediluvian Monster]

So a country like China could start with 10 rifle factories making a million rifles a year and zero tank factories. Whereas the Czechs could get a single rifle factory + a single tank factory to represent their IRL production.

I think it would be extremely generous to give China more small arms factories than Czechoslovakia (which was in any case one of China's arms suppliers).

 

[Lumpy]

Well, I started a singleplayer game as Argentina to check out the new AI, basically a handsoff game. In 1941, Japan got pushed back to Manchuria and had about 5 million casualties, as opposed to China's 1,5 million. I'd say the balance is worse.