China in Amerika???

[unmerged(7653)]

I had just started a game with Portugal. In the year of 1440 i discovered the new world. My ship's where sailing along the northern coast of southern Amerika. They discovered a province called Surinam, and there I found 1340 chinese men!!! Is that normal?

 

[BiB]

This is clearly EU2 And yes, the Chinese have that tendency

 

[veracusse]

I have experienced the same thing, but wierder.

I am playing a GC with England, it is aproximately 1550, and I am exploring and colonizing the Americas right now. I discover the Bahamas and am suprised to find a Chinese city, not a colony, but a city with a population over 1500+. Likewise, there are no other Chinese settlements in sight, most of the other provinces are SPanish colonies and trading posts, Maya and Aztecks, French and Portuguese, and a few of my own as well.

My question is, how in the hell did the Chinese get all the way over there?

They would have had to sail all across the pacific, around the tip of South America and up again into the Atlantic ocean. I have played China many times, and I know that it is feaseable and likely to reach the Americas and even set up some colonies on the West coast, especially if you put a lot of resources and effort into this, but all the way over into the Bahamas!?!

While playing an European nation, it is hard enough to get to the Bahamas and set up a colony/trading post, but China seems to have had no problem with this.

Yet, the even scary occurence was when I was playing England and found Chinese warships cruising around the British isles. What and how in the world did they get all the way over there?

V

 

[Lucidor]

Originally posted by veracusse
My question is, how in the hell did the Chinese get all the way over there?

The AI builds its boats out of a special panzer wood that resists wear and tear like nothing else. (They are excluded from naval attrition... )

 

[Vulture]

The cursed AI Naval cheat
We've been discussing the China issue in Beta ALOT

 

[veracusse]

I don't mind China being atracted to the West for colonization purposes, but when they have to cheat to do it.

It must be the bugs in the wood they use to keep their warships afloat to avoid attrition.

V

 

[Galleblære]

As I understand it, the AI doesnt have attrition on fleets, since its does very poorly avoiding it. It just irritates the heck out of me to see some nation blockading my port for a year, after it has travelled half of Europe just to get there. (Spain blockading scandinavian ports for example...sux!

Maybe there could be a comprimise...AI explorers dont have attrition, but normal fleets do. Anyway, AI explorers should be tweaked, so that you dont see chinese fleets hower around Europe during the early 1400s...

 

[unmerged(547)]

Why is it necessary to have the AI Naval Cheat in the first place? This is a totally bogus aspect of the game. Please, oh please, betas here my plea....no more AI naval cheats in future patches.

 

[veracusse]

I agree. I HATE HATE the AI naval cheat. I never thought it was necessary. I hope that it is taken out in 1.05.

V

 

[unmerged(295)]

We all know how stupid the AI is when it comes to the handling of their forces. I understand why it is.

I have two suggestions --

1) Either allow explorers to have no attrition but normal fleets wiill.

2) Put in a 'deep sea zone' penalty the Chinese when it comes to the Pacific, to force them to go west instead of east.

 

[Galleblære]

The problem it seems, is that the developers are unable to make an intelligent AI that doesnt kill its own fleets, and send its explorers out just to die in nowhereland etc. Can't be too hard to implement some code telling the ai:

headclosestport if attrition = x
if destination x
and attrition = x
then headclosestport
resume destination x

etc etc...

 

[veracusse]

Once as I was playing China, trying to cross the pacific, my fleet got so far out that its attrition rate was so high they immediatley turned back to port. I got a message box alerting me of this, similar to the retreat message. The AI sent my fleet back and I could not control them until they reached the nearest port.

Why can't this happen to the AI as well. When attrition becomes high, there should be a greater chance the fleet will mutiny and head back to the nearest home port, or any port they have access to. Hopefully they will make it back in time.

Now, AI fleets are subject to atrition, and it will not act stupid with its fleets. The AI will pick the shortest route back to port, and there reset its attrition.

V

 

[unmerged(6535)]

Originally posted by veracusse


My question is, how in the hell did the Chinese get all the way over there?

In some respect its called reenactment of History.

 

[veracusse]

Hmmmmmm!

I never knew that in 1555 China had a thriving city colony in the Bahamas. Were the Ming emperors there on vacation?

 

[unmerged(3466)]

We've gone over this before, and while everyone agrees the AI naval attrition thing sucks, the AI simply can't handle regularly returning their ships to port.

I think the solution to the Chinese problem is to lose Zheng He. It's not historical, but it would solve the Chinese in America problem, which seems to happen much more often than it doesn't.

Someone who wanted to play China could always stick him back in there.

 

[unmerged(295)]

I don't see why we can't program something where the Chinese can't send their explorers into the Pacific in the 15th century. How hard would it be to program the AI for China not to send their ships into certain sea zones?

 

[veracusse]

First of all let me get this straight. It isn't good that the AI fleets are always sinking in the middle of the ocean. But as history and naval archeaology has shown there are millions of sucken vessels on the bottom of the ocean throughout the ages, especially during the age of exploration. The AI's fleets sinking due to atrition is historical. Now I know that the AI shouldn't be dumb about it, and that needs to be fixed. And I think that it can.

Allowing the AI fleets to be atritionless in an effort to balance the game, has really unbalanced the game even worse. It is an attempt to fix one aspect of the game yet has broken another.

Here is an idea that I don't think has floated around here yet. When explorers and Conquistadors are awakened they should have a pre-set voyage or expedition course that they immediatley follow. For example, Zheng He when he awakes sets out on his voyage through the Indian ocean towards Africa. The voyage will take him there and back on a preset, historical course of discovery. Once he has returned he is under the Human player's control to go find new pastures/waters elsewhere. The leader's historical voyage would be atritionless, to not cause a problem. Some leaders might go on more voyages, such as Columbus' three voyages.

One caveat, if the destination of a leader's voyage is already discovered then the leader is turned over to the player to make his own discoveries. Event Explorer and Conquistador leaders will be under the player's control automatically.

This way, Zheng He will be sent to Eastern Africa and the Indian ocean, instead of the West coast of America. If there is time after his voyage he can be sent to expore that way later. Columbus will go West towards the Americas like he did in History, etc.

All other fleets that are not on historical voyages should have atrition affect them. It was a part of history so it should be included. I don't want just my ships to be on the bottom of the ocean.

Is this a reasonable and balanced solution/suggestion?

V

 

[unmerged(4444)]

In EU1 the AI never had any problems with historical exploration, colonization, etc. I've never understood why the AI was made dumber for the sequel... any betatesters want to explain this one?


Phil

 

[BiB]

Originally posted by Duke of Earl
In EU1 the AI never had any problems with historical exploration, colonization, etc. I've never understood why the AI was made dumber for the sequel... any betatesters want to explain this one?


Phil

It isn't.

 

[unmerged(4989)]

Perhaps this can be historically explained by the Chinese stealing Portugese maps after first contact. My question is why do they skip the gold mine in Monterrey for the wheat fields of Uruguay, as usually happens in my games?

P.S.--When do the Portugese get Macao?