China/DPRK

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Current Leadership/Armed Forces Commanders

Are the Chinese government officials accurate? Along with the military generals/admirals. etc. Or are they mostly ad-hoc make believe officials? And how about pictures? I also checked the post concerning the "Leaders and Ministers." I do not recall knowing ANYONE that has a middle-eastern name to hold such government positions.
I.E.
Minister of Security: Ali Younesi (Efficient Sociopath)
Replacement: Abdo-Nabi Namazi (Prince of Terror)
Maybe i'm mistaken, please correct me if i'm wrong. However, for historical and realistical accuracy, I do hope that the leaders and ministers are Actually based on Real People. I noticed that Asia as a whole usually doesn't attract as much detail compared to the U.S. and Europe when it comes to ministers and leaders.
I.E.
HOI in particular is mostly German-Based due to the fact that 95% of the Generals/Admirals actually have pictures accompanying them. Not to mention that most of them are actually based on real people.

 

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I did both the leaders and the ministers for China from government and news webpages (CNN might report that Chinese General Xiang visited Burma on X date). There might be a handful of leaders made up for the hard-to-find areas such as rear admirals, but the upper ones and most of the land ones should be accurate.

Those two top ministers do look odd though, they will probably be changed. The replacements are mostly vice-ministers and the top guys within the respective departments.

Edit: Yeah, they're probably wrong. The ministeres of justice, of public security, and of state security all have Chinese names.

 

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Lunar, What do u think of Political War-Trigger?

Lunar, i'd like to know what u think of President Chen Shui Bian and the Taiwan Issue. Likewise, i'd like to know what u think of the post.
I would also do some research on the hierarchy of the Chinese Leadership. However, i need to get some sleep.

 

[Buke]

Red China

Taiwan was going to be a catalyst for war in some way and your idea of having Chen Shui-Bian declare formal independence is a good one and should be used.

As for Chinas build up, it will be modeled some but as the China player you will have to do as much buildup as you can before the war starts because the war will soon grow quite large.

 

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Lunar, i'd like to know what u think of President Chen Shui Bian and the Taiwan Issue. Likewise, i'd like to know what u think of the post.

Sorry for missing it. It seems fine. I was thinking of having Taiwan declaring independance to start the war myself (or China doing something to provoke the declaration). This is especially obvious for way the war should start since the Chinese president Hu has repediately stated that he would use large armed force to counteract any such declaration.

I also like the idea of having multiple paths to war if one things doesn't occur, this is quite important unless we want single-choice events.

 

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People's Republic of China: Political Leadership

Thanks Buke, Lunar. Multiple paths to war seems more interesting (If it could be instituted) than single-paths to war. (Boring) This adds more Kimchi to spice things up for the player/s.

Now, here is the Leadership for China, be advised though that this was taken from November 15, 2002. (Anyone else have a recent database for the Current 2004 Leadership?) Hu Jintao is currently the President while Jiang still has power within from the Powerful Central Military Commission. Current Premier is Wen Jiabao.

Note: Rank/District/Specialty.

China's National Party Leadership

CPC General Secretary: Hu Jintao
CPC Central Military Commission Chairman: Jiang Zemin
CPC Discipline Inspection Commission: Wu Guangzheng

Politburo
(Standing Committee) rank order:

Hu Jintao - PRC Vice President; President, Central Party School; Vice Chairman, Central Military Commissions (Anhui, Hydrolic engineer)

Wu Bangguo - Vice Premier (Anhui; electrical eng.)

Wen Jiabao - Vice Premier (Tianjin; Geology)

Jia Qingling - (Hebei; electrical eng.)

Zeng Qinghong - Secretariat (Jiangxi; eng.)

Wu Guangzheng - Secretary, CDIC (Jiangxi; electrical eng.)

Huang Ju - (Zhejiang; electrical eng.)
Li Changchun - (Liaoning; electrical eng.)

Luo Gan - State Councillor (Shandong; metallurgical eng.)

Regular Members:

Wang Lequan - Secretary, UAR CPC (Shandong)

Wang Zhaoguo - Director, CPC UFW Dept. (Hebei; Power eng.)

Hui Liangyu - Secretary, Jiangsu CPC (Jilin; Economics)

Liu Qi - Secretary, Beijing CPC (Jiangsu; metallurgical eng.)

Liu Yunshan - Director, CPC Propaganda Dept. (Shanxi)

Wu Yi - State Councillor (Hubei; Petroleum eng.)

Zhang Lichang - Secretary, Tianjin CPC (Hebei; Econ. Management)

Zhang DeJiang - Secretary, Guangdong CPC (Liaoning; Economics)

Chen Liangyu - Secretary, Shanghai CPC and mayor, Shanghai (Zhejiang; Arch. eng.)

Zhou Yongkang - Secretary, Sichuan CPC (Jiangsu; Geophysics)

Yu Zhengsheng - Secretary, Hubei CPC (Zhejiang; Missile eng.)

He Guoqiang - Director, CPC Organization Dept. (Hunan; Chem. eng.)

Guo Boxiong - Vice Chairman, CMC (Shaanxi; PLA Mil. Acad.)

Cao Gangchuan - Vice Chairman, CMC (USSR Mil. Eng. School)

Zeng Peiyan - Minister, State Development Planning Committee (Zhejiang; Electrical eng.)

Alternate Member:

Wang Gang - Director, CPC General Office (Jilin; Philosophy)

CPC Secretariat

Zeng Qinghong - Politburo Standing Committee

Liu Yunshan - Politburo; Director, CPC Propaganda Dept.

Zhou Yongkang - Politburo; Secretary, Sichuan CPC Committee

He Guoqiang - Politburo; Director, CPC Organization Dept.

Wang Gang - Politburo alternate; Director, CPC General Office

Xu Caihou - Member, CPC CMC; Director, PLA General Political Dept.

He Yong - Deputy Secretary, CDIC; Minister of Supervision

 

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What can I do with all that? We're stuck with the minister system HoI has.

 

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People's Republic of China: Military Leadership

CPC Central Military Commission:

Chairman: Jiang Zemin - PRC President

Vice Chairmen:
Hu Jintao - CPC General Secretary; PRC Vice President
Guo Boxiong - Politburo
Cao Gangchuan - Politburo

Members:

Xu Caihou - Secretariat; Director, PLA General Political Dept.

Liang Guanglie - Chief General Staff, PLA General Staff Dept.

Liao Xilong - Director, PLA General Logistics Dept.

Li Jinai - Director, General Armament Dept.

PRC Central Military Commission:

Chairman: Jiang Zemin - PRC President

Vice Chairmen:
Hu Jintao - CPC General Secretary; PRC Vice President
Zhang Wannian
Chi Haotian - Minister of National Defense

Members:

Fu Quanyu - Chief of General Staff, PLA General Staff Dept.

Yu Yongbo - Director, PLA General Political Dept.

Wang Ke - Director, PLA General Logistics Dept.

Cao Gangchuan - Politburo; Director, General Armament Dept.

Guo Boxiong - Politburo

Xu Caihou - Secretariat

Other Military Leaders:

Xing Shizhong - Commandant, National Defense University

Ge Zhenfeng - Commandant, Academy of Military Science

Shi Yunsheng - PLA Navy Commander

Liu Shunyao - PLA Air Force Commander

Yang Guoliang - 2nd Artillery Corps Commander

Wu Shuangzhan - People's Armed Police Commander

 

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Oops...

Eh....Didn't know that...

 

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Yeah, it's a moderate bummer. Imagine having to deal with like 60 ministers though, eep.

 

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Lol!

Didn't know it would be THAT complicated! LOL! But couldn't we institute some of these in the game however? And what of the pictures?

 

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I can't think of a way. Just like Dick Cheney isn't on the US list, I doubt there is a way to include all of those council members.

 

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Spratlys Islands/Other Paths to War/SARS Epidemic

Well, I am very surprised that this issue never came up! There was several mentions of Indochina and South-East Asia and such, but never one on the Spratlys! The Spratlys Islands in the South China Sea could be used as a path to war, Why? Consider that the Spratlys Islands holds vast reserves of Gas, a precious resource. Also, the South China Sea is a busy sea-lane for merchant shipping from the Middle East, Africa, and South Asia. Now, also do remember that skirmishes run daily at this location as several countries;
China
Philippines
Vietnam
Malaysia
Brunei
Indonesia
All have claims on these islands. Besides the Taiwan Issue, Trade Issue, and the Korean Problem, This is one issue that has a good potential to cause a war. A skirmish between China and one or several of the other countries could lead to war of words, threats, trade embargoes, seizure of various reefs and islands, fortifications erected, more serious skirmishes within naval forces, and finally, WAR. Could there be diplomacy involved? Sure! But with such tensions, diplomacy only goes so far...
Another possible way for this to blow up in the South China Sea is that since Asia depends so much on the Middle East for its Oil and Energy resources, imagine what would happen if (God forbid) the Middle East makes an Oil embargo against China that is created due to worsening diplomatic relations? (Say China all of a sudden supported Israel) then China would have to turn to two things:
Russia
South China Sea (Spratlys Islands)
Russia...Hmm, by this time, China should have realized that Russia is not as strong as it looks, Its not as weak as it looks either. Surely the French and German Fiascos of the past should be a good learning tool! Even with the Oil Reserves in Russia starting to catch up, war with Russia would be SUICIDE.
Spratlys Islands...Considered to be potentially richer and larger than the Middle East Oil, along with other minor nations that lay claim on the islands, China could use its influence, military power, trade embargoes, and or demand its territory back. (Supposed to be part of China. Or so they claim, along with other nations.) With such minor powers in contention with China, and with dwindling Oil Resources, a quick strike to forcefully take the islands by force seems logical. But what about the U.S.? Europe? The rest of Asia? The rest of the World? The gamble seems rational. The rewards are vast, with the Spratlys, China would never have to rely on Middle Eastern Oil since they have their own resource pool as well! The strategic position of the Spratlys is also taken into account. More importantly, the strategic global implications of China having her own Oil could have far reaching effects into the future, especially the economy!...

I got a little carried away there...sorry! I also got another event; Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome. (SARS) Imagine if a new strain evolves and quickly envelopes China at a time when they are at their most powerful and or if victory is close at hand. Surely this would present the player with a daunting but not impossible challenge! This could also evolve elsewhere;
U.S./Europe/Canada.etc. SARS has no nationality, it has no boundaries, it doesn't care if your white, yellow, black, brown, red, or purple or green. What it does however, is take a host and multiply and spread. I believe this should be random, with the chances being higher for more powerful nations and their neighbors.

Any comment or whatnot would be Greatly appreciated!!!
Thank U!

 

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About the Spratley islands, that is another good alternative path to war, perhaps after the Taiwan one. Perhaps one of those countries shoots down a Chinese ship by the islands (we can destroy a random ship via event) and refuses to apologize for it after China takes strong retaliation.

Depending on the method the war starts, I'd like to see slightly different countries involved. Indonesia might become involved in the Spratley Island scenario (don't tell me that they don't want Brunei's oil), when they wouldn't be under the Taiwan one.

 

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Yep!/Other Theather Scenarios

That scenario could happen if the other countries involved did sink one of China's surface naval ships. Let's say a rogue admiral? For the Middle East to get involved, it should be from an Economics and Political standpoint. (Support for Israel) Whereas the South Asian countries to go to war with China, would require escalated tensions about border disputes. China could entice Vietnam to form a Communist Alliance if they are willing to give up former Vietnamese territory, Lao Cai. (Contrary to popular belief, China and Vietnam don't like each other even though they are both Communists. This is due to centuries old territorial disputes.) For China to get aggrevated over Japan would require that Japan elected new leaders that gives up on their Constitution (Chapter II: Renunciation of War - Article 9) and starts building up its military for offensive purposes. (Nationalism could play a part) Taiwan Issue, is of course President Chen Shui Bian declaring Independence. With the U.S. It could be Trade, Korea, and the others listed. For Europe to get involved would demand Chinese violations of the Geneva Convention.
I.E.
Use of NBC weapons of mass destruction
continued violation of territory and assault upon sovereign nations other than defense
Trade War
For Russia, well if Russia is attacked by China. (I do not see a good logical reason for a China player to do this...) But Russia, like China is a separate entity itself, therefore would make decisions that would benefit her in the long run.
African and South American Nations could ally with whoever is winning or is currently more powerful.

Different routes to war would ensure that the world and the player do go to war one way or the other. This hopefully would prevent the player/AI from becoming too powerful by building its Tech.Ind.Mil. In a state of overextended peace.

 

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Korean DMZ

In regards to the DMZ...The Maginot Line was built after the Great War (WWI) right? It took until WWII till the Maginot Line was put into use, albeit ineffectively. In HOI, the Maginot Line had a 10 Fortification rating. Consider that the DMZ was in Korea for a good 50-51 years. Consider that today and tomorrows weapons and armies are far more deadly and more better trained.
Consider that even today, Both Koreas are in a state of war, only a cease-fire armistice was signed, not a peace treaty. Consider that right on the DMZ, two of the world's most lethal armies face off on a daily basis, ready to blow and kill each other off once the war resumes again. Consider the role of airpower in the decades since WWII. Consider that the Maginot Line was made right after WWI, and it was not long till WWII. (About a good 20-25 years.) More importantly, the DMZ is here even today.

5-6 fortification rating for the DMZ...With far more advanced Air Power, and more modern Armies, 5-6 is nothing. 7-10 fortifications rating? Looks more like the Maginot Line. 12-15 fortification level rating along with 10-12 Anti-Aircraft Guns rating sounds more decent and recent. This is to simulate the threat of today's modern aircraft. Let's face it, the DMZ is supposed to be no-man's land. The DMZ eclipses the Maginot Line in every respect. It would take a LOT of men, dead men until the DMZ is broken. That means a LOT of divisions are needed to break through at the cost of a LOT of blood for both sides. This should prevent a quick and easy victory on the Korean Peninsula for both sides. If the Chinese and the Americans intervene, (98% chance.) Then it would prevent the powers from winning easily in the 2nd Korean War. Until newer and more powerful technologies are researched theoretically and applied, then the DMZ should be truly the Modern Day No-Man's Land.

 

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They would be impossible to assault if you make them too high, resulting in no casualties for either side. Remember that those are mountain provinces!

I doubt the AI could handle a huge stalemate in another country, I'd like to see Korea conquered if we can. Maybe if China gets a certain tech while at war with South Korea and allied with North, we can give them an event that allows them to destroy most of the South Korean mines and whatnot.

I'll kick into gear next week perhaps, I'm busy for the rest of this one.

 

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Perhaps 11?

Perhaps 11-12 fortification rating along with 5 or 10 AA rating? The most important being the AA. How about that?

 

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Perhaps 11-12 fortification rating along with 5 or 10 AA rating? The most important being the AA. How about that?

Edited my previous post a bit.

This would reduce any attacker to 1 percent efficiency. It'd be like assaulting a defended Gibraltar in HoI with a militia division

We also aren't cranking up the attack values of the units relative to the WW2 values.

 

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Underground Tunnels

I overlooked the mountainous Korean terrain...The AA will be there though right? And also, the North Koreans have repeatedly dug huge underground tunnels capable of being able to allow tanks right under the South's borders. Could that be an alternative or random event?
What do u guys think of my other posts?
"Yep/Other Theater Scenarios"
Sorry to be a bug about asking such questions, but I'd like to know the feedback regarding such things. (I do hope that the more legitimate ideas that we combined have, the better the Mod. will be, even at the Beta level!)