China/DPRK

[unmerged(16020)]

Originally posted by vcarter707
whoa, tawian is basically nat. china?

i knew there flags look the same

Aye. When the Communists took over, the Nationalists fled to Taiwan. In fact, Chiang Kai-Shek's wife just died there at age 106 in today. (Link contains some Taiwan history as well)

 

[unmerged(15893)]

Originally posted by Lunar
Aye. When the Communists took over, the Nationalists fled to Taiwan. In fact, Chiang Kai-Shek's wife just died there at age 106 in today.

She was still alive? WOW! 106 is mighhhttttyyy old

 

[unmerged(16020)]

Added the link in my previous post.

 

[Mos]

There should be a number of events associated with the Taiwan thing. The following would be "favorable" outcomes that would trigger the next one.


1. Election of Taiwanese nationalist. (Triggers event 2 and 3)

2. USA gives assurances to Taiwan. (Triggers event 3) (This probably should have levels of assurances, including actually stationing troops in the island)

3. Taiwan declares independence.

4. China goes to war/does not go to war. (Realistically, China would *never* go to war if the possibility of war with the US was there. That's one reason they don't attack now and dismantle the "rogue province.")


1. (triggered by date) USA Gives assurances to Taiwan. (All presidents have promised to protect Taiwan since Carter, I think, either privately or in the public. Therefore, this should trigger shortly after an election. George W. Bush did it on his first year)

2. Taiwan declares independence.

3. China declares/does not declare war.



1. China goes to war with NATO.

2. Taiwan declares independence.

3. China declares war/does not declare war on Taiwan.


1. China goes to war with India.

2. Taiwan declares independence.

3. China declares/does not declare war.


The problem, of course, is how we model the actual real world situation pre-independence. Taiwan is, without any doubt, NOT a puppet state, and not controlled by China. They even have their own independent military built specifically to deter China. Paradoxically, they aren't really independent either - no nation will formally recognize them unless THEY just say no to China. So, we have an independent Taiwan that can't join alliances. Can the US AI be coded not to allow Taiwan to join unless a certain event triggers?

 

[unmerged(15893)]

Originally posted by Mos

1. China goes to war with NATO.

There is no NATO in the game, NATO has totally collapsed in our mod (New military Alliance is CTF (EU) and CotW (U.S./Brit)).

The other stuff sounds good, just like the stuff we said we were going to do.

Thanks!

 

[unmerged(21989)]

Mos thats a nice right up but seriously last thing i think right now would be a international conflict including china... I think china has no time for that ........ Just adding a oppinion so im thinking it would be something with less backing from COTW er CTF er what ever

 

[unmerged(15893)]

Originally posted by Dokrroka
Mos thats a nice right up but seriously last thing i think right now would be a international conflict including china... I think china has no time for that ........ Just adding a oppinion so im thinking it would be something with less backing from COTW er CTF er what ever

Well, the whole mod will revolve around the main conflict between the CotW and China/DPRK, and Russia and CTF, so there will be a major international war with China involved.

 

[unmerged(21989)]

ok im following you so never mind what i just said

 

[vladimir]

Offten, Taiwan don't declare independence when China has war with India, because China has enough units to fight with India (or Vietnam) and Taiwan both.
Second, in Taiwan we often think that the most war time between Taiwan strait beginning when USA and DPRK has war.
Third, because USA support Taiwan China decide that they must has war with USA and Japan first when they are into war with Taiwan. This is the reason that China bought cruisers (surely Slava class and ,maybe also, Kirov class), built four destroyers which two was aegis class, several new frigates like Lafayette in this and the last year.
ps: I wait MDS for my personal novel about the battle that China want. Of course, in Chinese.

 

[unmerged(15893)]

Originally posted by vladimir

ps: I wait MDS for my personal novel about the battle that China want. Of course, in Chinese.

In Chinese? Then how will I be able to read it???

 

[vladimir]

I still write my novel and never want to publish but just stick on my website. The novel is too crazy for anyone and I just write this to help me thinking somethings about the Chinese military.

The title of novel is from the Ukrainian anthem: "Shche ne vmerla Ukraina". I use this title because the first cruiser of PLAN is the flagship of Ukrainian navy Slava class cruiser "Ukraina" (this is the real news) and change as "Taiwan" when she arrive in China (in my novel).

The crazy part is PLAN's warships amount. I give PLAN 32 cruisers (all provinces need to has a cruiser named after the province) 120 destroyers, and 224 frigates, 150 submarines.

 

[unmerged(20048)]

If China needs a good reason to attack Taiwan then what about something like this:
1. Due to some reason tensions between US and China are on the rise and US declares a trade boycot with China(shouldn't be that hard to imagine as US has lots of active trade boycots at the moment and it really isn't that long since US had a boycot against China).
2. China desperatly needs some resource
3. Resource discovered in plenty on Taiwan
4. China tries to persuade Taiwan into trading the resource
5. US tries to convince Taiwan not to
6. Then China tries to intimidate Taiwan giving it the option of either war or giving it's ressources freely to china.
7. Taiwan is left to choose between pissing either China or US off.
8a. Taiwan choose's US in 80% of cases resulting in war
8b. Taiwan choose's China in 20% of cases resulting in China gaining military access/control and Taiwan becoming puppet

For this event chain to be probable china would have to miss some very important resources. They already have:
coal, iron ore, petroleum, natural gas, mercury, tin, tungsten, antimony, manganese, molybdenum, vanadium, magnetite, aluminum, lead, zinc, uranium, hydropower potential (world's largest). Maybe Copper or it could be some exotic metal that is a major component in some recently discovered super alloy that is needed if you want to build some special new unit. At first this might sound like a stupid idea "China going to war over some stupid resource" but remember how many wars have been declared due to lack of some resource (eg. Japan/Oil in WW2)

 

[unmerged(21989)]

Total Agreement.

 

[Mos]

Offten, Taiwan don't declare independence when China has war with India, because China has enough units to fight with India (or Vietnam) and Taiwan both.
Second, in Taiwan we often think that the most war time between Taiwan strait beginning when USA and DPRK has war.
Third, because USA support Taiwan China decide that they must has war with USA and Japan first when they are into war with Taiwan. This is the reason that China bought cruisers (surely Slava class and ,maybe also, Kirov class), built four destroyers which two was aegis class, several new frigates like Lafayette in this and the last year.
ps: I wait MDS for my personal novel about the battle that China want. Of course, in Chinese.

No way. China has about 15,000 amphibious troops to attack Taiwan with. Taiwan has 220,000 troops to defend their island with. Taiwan's navy is better equipped, better prepared, technologically superior, and has the advantage of defending. (It's easy to detect a moving submarine - a stationary one is really, really hard) China is incapable of mounting a surprise attack, because US satellites go over the area a dozen times a day.

It is likely that a combined Taiwan/India navy could outclass and neutralize China's already laughable blue water capabilities.

I really can't understand what you mean in point two or three.

 

[Mos]

If China needs a good reason to attack Taiwan then what about something like this:
1. Due to some reason tensions between US and China are on the rise and US declares a trade boycot with China(shouldn't be that hard to imagine as US has lots of active trade boycots at the moment and it really isn't that long since US had a boycot against China).
2. China desperatly needs some resource
3. Resource discovered in plenty on Taiwan
4. China tries to persuade Taiwan into trading the resource
5. US tries to convince Taiwan not to
6. Then China tries to intimidate Taiwan giving it the option of either war or giving it's ressources freely to china.
7. Taiwan is left to choose between pissing either China or US off.
8a. Taiwan choose's US in 80% of cases resulting in war
8b. Taiwan choose's China in 20% of cases resulting in China gaining military access/control and Taiwan becoming puppet

For this event chain to be probable china would have to miss some very important resources. They already have:
coal, iron ore, petroleum, natural gas, mercury, tin, tungsten, antimony, manganese, molybdenum, vanadium, magnetite, aluminum, lead, zinc, uranium, hydropower potential (world's largest). Maybe Copper or it could be some exotic metal that is a major component in some recently discovered super alloy that is needed if you want to build some special new unit. At first this might sound like a stupid idea "China going to war over some stupid resource" but remember how many wars have been declared due to lack of some resource (eg. Japan/Oil in WW2)

I disagree with this, and not just because I'm a jerk. (I am)

Taiwan strength is its industry, not its resources. Actually, Taiwan's industry is critical to the entire West because they're the world's only producer of first-tier electronics, but that's not important. Their military deterrence is strong enough that I really don't think China is in a position to demand shit from Taiwan, unless, of course, what they'd really like is just to blow it up with a bunch of missiles. That'd work. I guess. Kind of eliminates the whole point of wanting Taiwan though. Oh, and cripples the world computer market.

 

[Buke]

I don't think we need an extravagant backstory as a reason for China to attack Taiwan. We should just go with the standard that if Taiwan moves to declare formal independence from China the war will begin.

As for Chinas ability to attack Taiwan they have far more men, more ships though of less quality, far more artillery that can hit targets from china, and they have the advantage in airpower and cruise missals. It would be difficult and China would lose many men but most of Chinas military reforms recently have been towards creating a force that can invade Taiwan. Today China is more capable of invading and defeating Taiwan than it ever has been before.

 

[Mos]

I don't think we need an extravagant backstory as a reason for China to attack Taiwan. We should just go with the standard that if Taiwan moves to declare formal independence from China the war will begin.

As for Chinas ability to attack Taiwan they have far more men, more ships though of less quality, far more artillery that can hit targets from china, and they have the advantage in airpower and cruise missals. It would be difficult and China would lose many men but most of Chinas military reforms recently have been towards creating a force that can invade Taiwan. Today China is more capable of invading and defeating Taiwan than it ever has been before.

China is capable of defeating Taiwan, sure, but it is something that can't be done without jeopardizing their very reason for invading in the first place. Invading Taiwan requires a few things:

1. A blue water navy.

China's navy is only slightly larger than Taiwan's navy in this respect.

2. Marine force.

China doesn't have enough landing craft to put down enough amphibious troops to take out Taiwan's 240,000 man army. It's impossible. They can bring in all the airpower they like but you can't win with only 15,000 troops.

3. Air power

China has this in spades. No contest, even though Taiwan's fighters are in better condition and are better trained.


There are a few things wrong with your post. First, China could level Taiwan and turn it into a wasteland and there'd be no opposition. However, my friend, that eliminates the point of invading in the first place because the only reason you'd even want Taiwan is its industrial base. Destroy that, and you have a worthless hunk of land. Because China has no precision technology, they can probably hit around the cities and such, but targetting destruction would be impossible.

China has no artillery that can hit the island of Taiwan. The US has no artillery that could hit Taiwan from the mainland. We're talking well over a hundred miles, here. American artillery can at around 25 miles, and at that distance you have to start correcting for the rotation of the Earth.

Now, I'm not saying that Taiwan totally outclasses China and would never fall, but they'd put up one hell of a fight.

 

[unmerged(24349)]

Modern? What Year?

Your idea of a Modern-Day HOI Mod fascinates me, I found the link from Stony Road to War, then from Road to War.com. However, by "Modern," how modern is the timeline? I am somewhat confused. Is it the present, or the near future? What year does the "Modern" signify? I'd like to know since I'd like to help with the Mod. The People's Republic of China part I'd really like to help along with some from the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. (North Korea)

 

[unmerged(16020)]

It starts with the Iraq war and ends somewhere around 2015 (12 years timeframe).

Check out the plot thread, I suppose. We should put that the year timeframe in the FAQ, Marty.

Any help is of course, greatly appreciated.

 

[unmerged(24349)]

Chen Shui Bian: China Political War-Trigger

Since this is around the Iraq War, say around 2003-2004. Then the political war-trigger should be Chen Shui-Bian, when he chooses to declare Formal Independence from the mainland. Democratic People's Republic of Korea Could ignite the war, but the Taiwan Issue should be the Main focus for China to go to war. Also, a Trade War between the U.S. and China could ensue should Chen Shui-Bian doesn't declare Independence. A trade war that quickly escalates into embargoes, higher and higher tariffs, threats, and finally War.
Considering that Chen is using this Independence talk to help him get re-elected, what if in the mod we give the Taiwan Player/AI the option to formally declare it? And already, Taiwan has told China to remove the hundreds of missiles aimed directly at it, consequently, many Taiwanese spies and accomplices were caught after the announcement about the missiles. Also, if Chen loses the elections, then war with Taiwan should be reduced with the focus shifting to North Korea.
The Chinese ascent into space by Yang Li Wei should also be taken into account, along with the economic development. Blue-water Navy modernization drive. Air Force Acquisitions, and Army modernization and reorganization. President Hu Jintao and Premier Wen Jiabao also should have significant impact on the economy, modernization, and diplomacy for China.
This is the initial idea I have right now, but the primary focus I believe for China is the Taiwan Issue. (Some of these info. have been taken from the recent events concerning China.) I will get more info. regarding these information.