China and africa too weak (because too many troops carried on ships)

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ramadawn

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So everything I have ever read about China's interactions with the west, demonstrate that ,before the 19th century, there was
pretty much no way western nations could beat China militarily. For example they kicked the Dutch out of Taiwan in 1642
and forced the Russians out of far east Siberia and Manchuria around the same time period.

Yet in this game, as a western power I can easily conquer Chinese terratory by around 1650. This is really not in any way historical.

The same can be said for Africa. Until the 19th century, most of the African coast was dominated by powerful city states.
This combined with tropical diseases , the Europeans had no resistance too, ment that most of Africa was pretty much out of reach of European control.

Yet again in this game. 10k troops and some transports make taking over the African coastline relatively simple.

I think the main problem here is that transport rates are too high. 18 transports can carry 18,000 troops. Yet historically if
you look at something like the Spanish armada it took 130 ships to carry that many! Europeans are having too easy a time
getting troops overseas and as a result are projecting too much power overseas.

Though in Russia's case with China it still is that China is too weak.
 

TheMeInTeam

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Ming just sucks in general. CHINESE tech nations can dismantle it in the late 1400s or early 1500's, as can any nomad tech nation that can reach them.

The main problem is how unrealistically pitiful the East is even at equal tech with unified governance.

It doesn't help that the AI both sucks and isn't opportunistic. For say Portugal to invade Vijaynagar in the 1500's even in game, if the human player is Asian they'll need to send a majority of their forces, lest they just get stalled out with re-assault or hit with a stack split. They can't leave much navy behind either, because if they do some early carrack spam is a threat even if it's backwards, and it's not like Portugal wants to be spamming out tons of those only to ship them months away.

But the AI will leave a completely exposed home front alone, and Asian AIs don't prioritize tech properly and the penalties are too great for it to overcome.
 

Lac du Bois

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The game doesn't do much with disease which is the main factor in Africa. Of course Pizarro managed to conquer the Inca with 160 Spaniards in a short time which I can't see happening in the game so there are also situations where the colonizers don't get easy victories they might otherwise have been fortunate to get.

From a gameplay standpoint it's pretty fun as it is. I'd just like to see more dynasty changes in China.
 

fridabina

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The game doesn't do much with disease which is the main factor in Africa. Of course Pizarro managed to conquer the Inca with 160 Spaniards in a short time which I can't see happening in the game so there are also situations where the colonizers don't get easy victories they might otherwise have been fortunate to get.
160 Spaniards and lots of native Auxillary forces. Would be nice to be able to recruit some kind of native mercenaries, and limiting the amount of troops u can ship.
Then again, the AI wouldnt be able to handle it very well.
 

kuolema

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Yes, my first game ever of EUIV as Japan I was so nervous about invading Korea because I was expecting Ming's massive army of doom to kick me off the continent. Little did I know that Ming is actually a juicy juicy treat.
 

Strager

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I'd expect much of this to be resolved in WoN since it focuses explicitly on the trading companies that dealt in the area. They will need to re-balance the entire region for it.
 

Lwantssugar

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Or, or, we could embrace this radical new concept of not making non western units a waste of human flesh. Seriously in Victoria 2 an uncivilized Japan can fight off most European powers until the 1850s or so before artillery starts getting really powerful and breach loading rifles don't exist yet
 

FloatingOrb

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I have been playing a lot of asian games and heres what I have concluded.
Ming is too complicated for an ai. When I played Ming I came pretty damn close to aa world conquest since I westernized early. Factions give you super cheap tech so you just smash everyone with your 100k lvl 20 units when they are like 5 tech levels behind. That was a few patches ago though, but I think the point still stands. The ai simply does not know when to switch the factions, or how to deal with the rebelions, so they get smashed.
I think the Manchu need thier manpower bonus to be buffed a tad. Maybe by another 5% or so, just to help the recovery between wars. I just find myself facing peasant wars consitently, and I dont think im that bad/unlucky.
Japan is easy mode. never underestimate +15 discipline, and it's pretty bloody rich in it's own right. A lot of fun too.

As for dealing with the western nations, it is all about the fact that the ai sucks. As a human you can play whackamole if need be and smash any of the europeans. You will have a huge manpower base by the time they reach you. That said, I do think the -1 monarch power is stupid and arbitrary. I would happily trade it for a higher tech cost, simply because stability is so important for asian nations. Especially ming (random events can end a playthrough so easily).
 

kuolema

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Feb 17, 2014
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Speaking of Manchu, and the other Hordes as well, the AI appears to have no awareness of the +25% shock bonus. So even in an outnumbered defensive war they will still run into your territory and so you can get an easy victory even when you're too weak to have been able to win otherwise. On the other hand other AI will also gladly dash towards Horde units in their own territory.

Maybe it was decided players would get irritated if Manchu just sat and waited. But yeah, I always annex them when I should still be too weak to.
 

unmerged(773066)

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I'd like to see Transports separated entirely from Naval Forcelimits personally, make them cheaper but carry less troops with more chances or loss at sea. Or attrition for troops on ship. 1000 troops a ship guaranteed to make landfall any where on the planet is just a bit silly in this timeframe.

Or, maybe, no reinforcement at all after x distance unless you have y conditions, a province nearby, fleet basing rights, access etc?
 

Bibor

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Speaking of Manchu, and the other Hordes as well, the AI appears to have no awareness of the +25% shock bonus.

Most of human players either :)
DDRJake's excellent golden horde YT series shows how much can be done with playing the Hordes properly for a very, very long time.