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Aladar said:
Why all these changes?
My guess is that Elio wanted some of these nations to have a quicker tech development. I sympathize with that idea.
If we find it unhistorical another soludtion could be to give them say 4-4-3-3 tech from start and keep them pagan. Well, that would perhaps also be unhistorical but a challenge!
Regarding the native aggressiveness I think a variety of aggressiveness is desireable. It makes the game more challenging.
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And I would like to repeat for the umpteenth time that is is quite stupid to select nations first and then discuss edits. That the GMs have allowed this, despite my warnings, is a big mistake. It is impossible to discuss these edits matters now in an impartial way.
No one has been given any nations yet, thou no one has asked for the same as no. 1 either 
Anyway, the total number of natives where the agression is lowered is 11 i think, so it's nothing wild.
User defined really should be pagan, not Hindu. Or did you ever hear that the aboriginals were infact hindu?
Makasar and Brunei will still be muslim, but now there it's more fun to go after them early so they don't convert the provinses.
And all pagan nation will in january 1419 receive the usual Elio techboost. Try loading a pagan nation, it's rather nice
All in all not that many edits to the scenario, but we still need to look a little into events for nation, leader and monarch info.
Anyway, the total number of natives where the agression is lowered is 11 i think, so it's nothing wild.
User defined really should be pagan, not Hindu. Or did you ever hear that the aboriginals were infact hindu?
Makasar and Brunei will still be muslim, but now there it's more fun to go after them early so they don't convert the provinses.
And all pagan nation will in january 1419 receive the usual Elio techboost. Try loading a pagan nation, it's rather nice
All in all not that many edits to the scenario, but we still need to look a little into events for nation, leader and monarch info.
I agree.Daniel A said:
Once we are started I may add that I find playing a game where the most important issues are decided in the editing discussions here, and not in-game or by diplomacy, is a big fun-killer for me. Reminds me of kindergaarten, where the loadest kid got the most.
Aladar said:
I explicitly wrote that I guessed Elio did this to give them a better tech development and noted that it could be viewed as unhistorical. I also proposed another solution to maintain this suggested basic idea of Elio.
Aladar said:
I see, so your message to Bob was that in those cases where aggressiveness is 10 then change them to 6. That is a lesser change than what I envisaged. Well as I am probably going to be POR I like this change but when trying to look at it impartially I am not as sure.
I ask myself: why this change? Merely to make it easier for colonisers? As you try to make it more attractive to take Brunei and Makassar? But do we want that?
Ohh well can't make everyone happy. Atleast you can't say the GM is doing it to get an advantage, since my country is muslim.
Anyway, i haven't found anything else i want to edit at this point, not even the number of people in India etc. If you want to take it, just conquer 75% of the provinses and claim the culture.
Anyway, i haven't found anything else i want to edit at this point, not even the number of people in India etc. If you want to take it, just conquer 75% of the provinses and claim the culture.
Just so there will be any misunderstandings: I know that it is not curtain that I get GH. However, to make it a bit easier for Aladar and Bob, I will have a look at them.cobjor said:
Let's not get all paranoid here, i'm sure both Dr Bob and myself will be aware of any unreasonable requests for edits.
But since we are playing nations that might not normally be played, i do think it fair that people look into events, monarchs and leaders. If not, someone might end up with a 400 year monarch with 3/3/3 stats.
There will also be added events for those nation who has very few compared to the average amount, but i'm also looking into what the events give.
Checked out ½ the countries, and so far only Brittany will have added events.
But since we are playing nations that might not normally be played, i do think it fair that people look into events, monarchs and leaders. If not, someone might end up with a 400 year monarch with 3/3/3 stats.
There will also be added events for those nation who has very few compared to the average amount, but i'm also looking into what the events give.
Checked out ½ the countries, and so far only Brittany will have added events.
Yeah Daniel, stop complaining, we are doing this all rather fast and arbitary to try to get a radically redesigned scenario ready to play in less than a week.
And I think that picking countries before edits isn't as bad as you make out, because I and I don't think Aladar have time to check out each country for monarchs and leaders, this way it is in your interest as a player to look at your country and see if there is any serious defiency in it, then tell me or Aladar and we'll decide if you are just begging for edits or there is something serious there.
Oh and if anyone knows how to edit conversions please tell me
And Aladar can you post the provinces with IDs that you want the natives calmed down in http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42046
we are doing this all rather fast and arbitary to try to get a radically redesigned scenario ready to play in less than a week.And I think that picking countries before edits isn't as bad as you make out, because I and I don't think Aladar have time to check out each country for monarchs and leaders, this way it is in your interest as a player to look at your country and see if there is any serious defiency in it, then tell me or Aladar and we'll decide if you are just begging for edits or there is something serious there.
Oh and if anyone knows how to edit conversions please tell me
And Aladar can you post the provinces with IDs that you want the natives calmed down in http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42046
Last edited:
New save uploaded to the stats page.
Aladar, those provinces that are not pagan now are usually muslim in Vanilla, and the natives remain unchanged atm.
So new stuff is a pagan New Zealand and 500 ducats for all, and some other stuff I can't remember.
Aladar, those provinces that are not pagan now are usually muslim in Vanilla, and the natives remain unchanged atm.
So new stuff is a pagan New Zealand and 500 ducats for all, and some other stuff I can't remember.
Bob,
I know, but I still think it would have been better to wait. I gave the tip about the GH monarchs although it was not my first choice, just as an example.
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The religion of a province is in the province section at the beginning of the file. You know that long enumeration of all provinces.
A typical entrance looks like this.
province = {
id = 525
whiteman = yes
income = 12
tax = 12
religion = sunni
}
Just change the religion tag like this
province = {
id = 525
whiteman = yes
income = 12
tax = 12
religion = catholic
}
I know, but I still think it would have been better to wait. I gave the tip about the GH monarchs although it was not my first choice, just as an example.
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The religion of a province is in the province section at the beginning of the file. You know that long enumeration of all provinces.
A typical entrance looks like this.
province = {
id = 525
whiteman = yes
income = 12
tax = 12
religion = sunni
}
Just change the religion tag like this
province = {
id = 525
whiteman = yes
income = 12
tax = 12
religion = catholic
}
Yeah I finally figured it out,
However as I said before, if there is no "religion = line" it means that province is set to the default religion, so I dunno if Aladar wants to leave those be, at the moment I have merely reversed Elio's changes.
Leaders have also been generated,
You get 2 leaders per session lasting between 15-25 years, with 2-5 values and 0-4 seige, you can tell me or aladar whether you want 1 general and 1 admiral or 2 generals or 2 admirals.
And after 1550 (up for discussion) you can ask for a conquistador or explorer along with another leader.
However as I said before, if there is no "religion = line" it means that province is set to the default religion, so I dunno if Aladar wants to leave those be, at the moment I have merely reversed Elio's changes.
Leaders have also been generated,
You get 2 leaders per session lasting between 15-25 years, with 2-5 values and 0-4 seige, you can tell me or aladar whether you want 1 general and 1 admiral or 2 generals or 2 admirals.
And after 1550 (up for discussion) you can ask for a conquistador or explorer along with another leader.
A few suggestions of what is forbidden
Any release of vassals during wartime is illegal unless it is explicitly part of a peace agreement between players
To switch back to catholiscism from counterreformed before the edict of tolerance.
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And two more good rules
Any public agreement between players that would occur simultaneously in the real world but that, due to limitations in the game engine cannot be done simultaneously, must be adhered to. This rule includes, but is not limited to, any type of "sale".
A player which is force-vassalized must remain a vassal for at least 15 years. Forced and Diplomatic Vassals are required to submit to any request by their overlord that is not self-destructive.
The last one may be a source of quarrel since the concept of "self-destructive" is not obvious. But joining a war on the side of the master shall never be considered self-destructive. It should be interpreted restrictive. Say for example an order to disband all armies is not included, that would be self-destructive.
Any release of vassals during wartime is illegal unless it is explicitly part of a peace agreement between players
To switch back to catholiscism from counterreformed before the edict of tolerance.
------------
And two more good rules
Any public agreement between players that would occur simultaneously in the real world but that, due to limitations in the game engine cannot be done simultaneously, must be adhered to. This rule includes, but is not limited to, any type of "sale".
A player which is force-vassalized must remain a vassal for at least 15 years. Forced and Diplomatic Vassals are required to submit to any request by their overlord that is not self-destructive.
The last one may be a source of quarrel since the concept of "self-destructive" is not obvious. But joining a war on the side of the master shall never be considered self-destructive. It should be interpreted restrictive. Say for example an order to disband all armies is not included, that would be self-destructive.
I strongly dislike too good random leaders. As I have written before I prefer the values to average at 3 and not more than 4 in any category.
Daniel A said:
They are good yes, but they are good because a lot of nations here have empty leader files, Golden Horde for example, and by making only 2 of them I think they are now treated like historical leaders.
I tried it in the newbie game and it worked quite well there, and it could be important to have some sort of leader parity or those with full files will walk over those without them.
Post 1 updated with Daniels suggestions for rules.
Best map page is however here
ID numbers are 175, 176, 177, 226, 227, 228, 229, 691, 692, 693, 718, 719, 812 & 813 for pagan where agression should be lowered to 6.
ID numbers are 696, 706, 707, 708, 709, 713, 714, 715, 727, 728, 729, 730 for provinses that are now Muslim or Hindu but should be pagan. Makasar and Brunei keeps muslim culture while user defied shall become pagan.
Best map page is however here
ID numbers are 175, 176, 177, 226, 227, 228, 229, 691, 692, 693, 718, 719, 812 & 813 for pagan where agression should be lowered to 6.
ID numbers are 696, 706, 707, 708, 709, 713, 714, 715, 727, 728, 729, 730 for provinses that are now Muslim or Hindu but should be pagan. Makasar and Brunei keeps muslim culture while user defied shall become pagan.