Children of the Fatherland: MP conversion game

[FrozenWall]

by no means assured, one might be tempted to say "that's your own problem."

It is, and I responded to your statement from my own perspective, since I have nor concerned myself with scenarios where I am annexed.

notoriously poor in navigable waterways...Nile river delta not exactly brimming with coal.

Say huh? The continents civilizations have had plenty of waterways. The majority of the continents exploitable mineral deposits are located around the Congo, Limpopo and Zambezi rivers. With a fair amount of resources in adition to be found around the Niger, Senegal and Volta rivers. In fact the Nile is somewhat of an anomoly in its lack of resources.

Anyway I have created a thread on ederon if we wish to debate the point further.

 

[carillon]

Yeah, paging Ulmont to this thread to talk about Africa.

 

[Foelsgaard]

Why would we engineer resources out of thin air that aren't there in reality just for Africa?

Why not? If it would make for a better game? There is plenty of justification ranging from undiscovered deposits and better infrastructure to, simply, "this world's geology is different".

 

[Gollevainen]

Artificial creating of resources doesen't make game better, it makes it worse. I don't recall any nation beeing "wrecked" in the last GG becouse of lack of resources. I recall huge wars and great scheming when those without something went to took it from those who had.
And that was most of the time all what these sort of games should be about.

 

[ZechsMerquise73]

Is there any room for new players? Because I'd be glad to play as whatever that cluster in central Italy might be, if the Romans are willing.

 

[E. Jünger]

What is the word above "Finns"?

Ravenous. "Ravenous Finns".

 

[Jakalo]

Is there any room for new players? Because I'd be glad to play as whatever that cluster in central Italy might be, if the Romans are willing.

Romans most certainly are not willing if by cluster in central Italy is meant that breakaway vassal.
In any case CK has severe stability problems so there is self imposed max player limit - 12 afaik.

But do not despair, there is almost allways players missing so you can get a chance to sub and later take their place if someone leaves, there has been 2 such cases recently so it is not exactly uncommon.

 

[Gollevainen]

yeah we need subs ( i think two positions are open for 23rd allready)

 

[Foelsgaard]

Artificial creating of resources doesen't make game better, it makes it worse. I don't recall any nation beeing "wrecked" in the last GG becouse of lack of resources. I recall huge wars and great scheming when those without something went to took it from those who had.
And that was most of the time all what these sort of games should be about.

Golle, the game is artificial. It's not real. Resources are just floating point numbers in the save game.

It's not as if the vanilla distribution is perfect and holy and designed just for the kind of game we are playing.

There is no reason we can't have great scheming and huge wars with random resources. When I say random I don't say "equally distributed between all continents and players", surely we could write an algorithm that makes the distribution random and fun.

Hell I would even support the reduction of global resource levels, since they are currently set so high that there's rarely any urgent shortages. Last game, when industry became unprofitable to build, stockpiles were high enough to carry us through the rest of the game.

 

[Gollevainen]

It's not as if the vanilla distribution is perfect and holy and designed just for the kind of game we are playing.

I see no argument against keeping them as perfect and holy (and vanilla is always divine, mods are for those girly idiots that always bended the rules in sandbox games )

Resources as something solid vanilla would still allow much fun as everyone knows the strategical hot-spots and will have 900 (well 800 now) years to put themselves into position to grab what they need when the need rises. Making it completely random takes away lot of the point having anything similar to "reality" - that these games are set to present - to remain in our conversion.
By same logic, we should errase all the cultures and distribute them "more random" and fun manners. Who needs to have all frenchmen in some small spot of the world as after all, they are just floating numbers in the save game

aside that I adjoin the idea of resource levels for the mentioned reasons.

 

[Foelsgaard]

Resources as something solid vanilla would still allow much fun as everyone knows the strategical hot-spots and will have 900 (well 800 now) years to put themselves into position to grab what they need when the need rises. Making it completely random takes away lot of the point having anything similar to "reality" - that these games are set to present - to remain in our conversion.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see anything realistic in having complete knowledge of the distribution of the world's coal, oil and iron already in 1100 A.D. Having resources be random would be more realistic in that way since they sort of are in real life.

By same logic, we should errase all the cultures and distribute them "more random" and fun manners. Who needs to have all frenchmen in some small spot of the world as after all, they are just floating numbers in the save game

No, by the the same logic we could erase them and so on. The reason I think we should (see the difference?) is because it would have, in my opinion, a positive effect on gameplay.

 

[Gollevainen]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see anything realistic in having complete knowledge of the distribution of the world's coal, oil and iron already in 1100 A.D. Having resources be random would be more realistic in that way since they sort of are in real life.

discovery of different resources were not random in such way that we (or anyone else) could come up perfect formula of their distribution and realisation. We would end up into thin feather foundations in them and thus creating much galore and arguments who gets what and so on...
If "knowing" them before hand is bit un 1100 A.Dish, so are things like defence pacts with different religions and national states as well. Sometimes I think its just lot more fun to play the game as the game itself meants itself to be played.

No, by the the same logic we could erase them and so on. The reason I think we should (see the difference?) is because it would have, in my opinion, a positive effect on gameplay.

well after another Eu3 session (yesterday) with some anonymious future chinese player in this game (which by according to those who have never played with him should not be picked for just beeing that anonomioys chinese player)....Im not that stranger to thougth of having all the chinese whacked from our game and still have it as positive effect on gameplay?

 

[von_Rundstedt]

Golle, noone ever made a ruling on wheter the "anonymious future chinese player" is going to get to play China or not. Himself, you and others seem to think that it's already set-in-stone.

Anyways, resources, there are quite a few valid points for different arguments. I think the only thing I can currently agree to is reducing the amount of recources available in HoI. It's a game about warfare, not a game about building IC for 2/3rds of the game. We should try to keep it that way.

About Italy: KoM offered to released southern Italy if a player is found. If we can squeeze in another player, that'd probably be the best spot.


Edit: Damn you! Now you made me post stuff like that in our AAR thread! Meanies!

 

[Gollevainen]

Golle, noone ever made a ruling on wheter the "anonymious future chinese player" is going to get to play China or not. Himself, you and others seem to think that it's already set-in-stone.

I could say thing or two thousand about this, but best leave it to the wisdom of the new GM

Anyways, resources, there are quite a few valid points for different arguments. I think the only thing I can currently agree to is reducing the amount of recources available in HoI. It's a game about warfare, not a game about building IC for 2/3rds of the game. We should try to keep it that way.

this
I think simply ban building IC (or if we choose some mod, then make so that building IC would cost too much to be productive)

About Italy: KoM offered to released southern Italy if a player is found. If we can squeeze in another player, that'd probably be the best spot

.

Well the current roster is twelve. 13 is unlucky for game so dependable on superstisious as CK is.

 

[FrozenWall]

About Italy: KoM offered to released southern Italy if a player is found. If we can squeeze in another player, that'd probably be the best spot.

IF this prospective player so much as looks acros the strait I'm annexing him >:[

 

[Jakalo]

IF this prospective player so much as looks acros the strait I'm annexing him >:[

I dont like putting player in Souther Italy as his only viable expansion route is HRE land (besides Sicily). So I must voice the same sentiment.

 

[King of Men]

I offered that spot to Golle, to get him out of being a Duke for the rest of the game. Since he refused, I'm resigned (alas... it's very sad) to having to rule this area myself. And as noted, that limit of 12 people is imposed by game instability; my impression is that we are noticeably more unstable with 12 than with 10 players. So, sorry ZechsMerquise, but perhaps another spot will open up. It's not uncommon. And we would certainly welcome you as a sub on the 23rd.

 

[OrangeYoshi]

I offered that spot to Golle, to get him out of being a Duke for the rest of the game. Since he refused, I'm resigned (alas... it's very sad) to having to rule this area myself.

I can think of a person you could give it to that would take the burden off of you ruling it yourself.

 

[Jakalo]

I offered that spot to Golle, to get him out of being a Duke for the rest of the game. Since he refused, I'm resigned (alas... it's very sad) to having to rule this area myself. And as noted, that limit of 12 people is imposed by game instability; my impression is that we are noticeably more unstable with 12 than with 10 players. So, sorry ZechsMerquise, but perhaps another spot will open up. It's not uncommon. And we would certainly welcome you as a sub on the 23rd.

Strange you went through so much trouble to get it.

Anyhow being good neighbour I am I`m sure we can arrange some kind of ownership change to relieve you from this trouble.

 

[Gollevainen]

well the frosty's and Jakalo's voice echoes the reason of my orginal refusall to become their personal little sicilian chewtoy