Children of the Fatherland: MP conversion game
- Thread starter King of Men
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Well, I for one am not fighting. I'm trying to explain to Frosty that what he thinks he is doing is not what others think he's doing, and why this made me sufficiently concerned to write the treaty that I did.
At last, CotF slashfic! I always knew we were missing something, now I know what.
Now, our fan following shall be truly awe inspiring!
And now that the Caliphate has Rome and the Imperial Title, will they be claiming the mantle of the Roman Empire? (Hey, if the Ottomons could do it, why can't a bunch of Egyptians?)
fasquardon
I distinctively remember it as you dragging your feet and dodging the issue, but really this was like half a year ago. There is new stuff to fight over!
Dishonest I do not see, the people who's land I cheerfully stole may occasionally have something on my friendliness...
I'm not about to get dragged into the Balkans, unless it somehow directly benefits me. I am keeping my distance, avoiding promises or agreements that I'll trip over later.
Certainly we are laying claim on being the rightful Emperors of Rome itself, its right there in the games listing of the Caliphas titles after all. As for the parts of the Old Empire currently not in Arab domain, we can refer to them with whatever title they themselves prefer.
Although I do note someone else once said something of Emperors who did not hold Rome...
We ourselves of course neither condone nor reject such logics.
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I would say you see promises where I have simply taken opinions under advicement.
Anyway, weren't you claiming to be the True Inheritor of the legacy of Rome? I was expecting you to move your capital to Sirminum, hold sermons on the Illyrian Emperors and tell us the Radomirs decend in a straight line from Diocletian/Constantine/Lupa Capitolina?
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I would say you see promises where I have simply taken opinions under advicement.
Anyway, weren't you claiming to be the True Inheritor of the legacy of Rome? I was expecting you to move your capital to Sirminum, hold sermons on the Illyrian Emperors and tell us the Radomirs decend in a straight line from Diocletian/Constantine/Lupa Capitolina?
It isn't wise policy to remind people of all the promises you've broken.
I'm not fighting. I'm trying to educate you as to why your closest ally at that time in the game felt the need to write a treaty designed to punish a backstab.
It doesn't matter if you see it. If OTHERS see it, it will undermine the efficacy of your diplomatic policy. And this is why I am telling you that you need to consider why people see you this way.
fasquardon
Your humble attempts are much apreciated, but perhaps when there a party fails to understand what the other is saying blame does not necessarily fall on one specific party. Even if we like to maintain it was our counterpart who failed to understand what we said or clarify what he meant. People have a tendency to assign motivations and intents where there are none, or infer different levels of loyalty and support to f.ex the word "friend". Fact is this games players come from different cultural and linguistic backgrounds, and no matter how one speaks or acts someone else will object over imagined slights or see promises where there were only musings. I note however I have not assaulted anyone when I said I would not, and most the time you will now my intentions from reading the AAR.
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So can I call the Egyptians/Fatimids the Roman Empire now? But other than that I am finding it quite hard to keep up with whats happening. Well, that may be because I'm trying to write a history essay right now.
The nation that has it's capital in Egypt is currently doing it's darndest to piss off... just about everyone at the same time. Otherwise, everything else is peachy.
Oh. Except for the fact that Croatia and Bulgaria still hate each other.
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Re:Frosty's alleged deceitfulness (What is it, -1 diplomacy, +1 intrigue and a malus to loyalty? Sounds about right.)
Playing more than a handful games of Diplomacy has taught me the following: Judge people by their actions, not their words. This is also the main reason why I am in favour of unenforced (by the GM, that is) treaties.
What people say is all fine and dandy, and in a roundabout way it may give an indication of their true goals (but if they let that show, they are unprofessional - after all, in the end we're all here to win), but the only thing that shows a nation's true colours is how they act. I therefore believe in showing my friends loyalty as well as affirming it verbally.
It is useless to point out to Frosty how you perceive him to have broken his word. Simply adjust your pattern of expectation, and feel free to tell the world that you do, and why. Or don't, and let the rest of the world find out for themselves.
Re:Averronian Heretics: I'm going to go for cuddly Andalusians instead, thanks
Re:CotF slashfic featuring Foels & vR:
:rofl:
Playing more than a handful games of Diplomacy has taught me the following: Judge people by their actions, not their words. This is also the main reason why I am in favour of unenforced (by the GM, that is) treaties.
What people say is all fine and dandy, and in a roundabout way it may give an indication of their true goals (but if they let that show, they are unprofessional - after all, in the end we're all here to win), but the only thing that shows a nation's true colours is how they act. I therefore believe in showing my friends loyalty as well as affirming it verbally.
It is useless to point out to Frosty how you perceive him to have broken his word. Simply adjust your pattern of expectation, and feel free to tell the world that you do, and why. Or don't, and let the rest of the world find out for themselves.
Re:Averronian Heretics: I'm going to go for cuddly Andalusians instead, thanks
Re:CotF slashfic featuring Foels & vR:
:rofl:
Imperial Fatimid Caliphate will do. A new era is set to begin! One in which we get bonus missionaries and prestige!
If I can only make it to EU3 I expect a certain someone will steal that mantle of me.
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I don't hate Croatia. I merely intend to see it conquered, to take its lands and its wealth, kill its men, rape its women, burn its cities, and have its children serve mine until the end of days. But all in a very calm, unemotional manner. When a fox raids your henhouse, you set up traps and keep dogs, and perhaps you chop down the forest and turn it into farmland; but you do not hate the fox for acting as it does.
Demesne statistics
Last week I mentioned that I moved to Popular Law, reflecting the Mathian Reforms that restore some power to the Senate and the people, as against the Emperor and the magnates respectively. I hadn't realised that this means I'm forced to have scutage at 50%, limiting the number of troops I get from my vassals; but unintended effects of legal changes should not surprise anyone. In any case I'm pretty well stuck with it now.
However, while the Roman army is now a bit smaller, it punches well above its weight. Have a look at the percentage of each troop type in the various realms' demesnes:
Note that this is demesne only, since my vassals are mostly not on Popular Law, although that should change as they get events. Bing, zero percent useless militia, thirty percent bitchin' heavy infantry, thirty percent howling Cossacks! And I still get more heavy cavalry than anyone else, in spite of the Feudal Contract most people are on - the exception being Leon with Royal Prerogative.
Demesne for demesne, then, I'll match my troops against anyone; take FATI as an example. Although his demesne troops would outnumber mine two to one, I would actually have more heavy infantry and pikemen, and the same number of archers. His militia, admittedly, would be good for soaking up the casualties; but I suspect I'd win the battle. As for Croatia, there is nothing I would like better than to see another lightly-armed horde of tribal levies dash themselves to pieces against the solid wall of disciplined Roman infantry, before the thunderous charge of the kataphrakts drove them from the field. The savage dash of the Cossacks gleefully spearing and sabring the panicked, fleeing remnants would be merely the final touch.
Since I was doing demesne statistics anyway, I decided to pick out the troop-type weights due to techs. The weight is defined as the attack plus defense weights, times the morale multiplier; I calculate the average over the demesne.
The conclusion is as clear, and as unexpected, as sunrise: Rome's troops are the finest in the world not only because we don't waste men as light infantry, but also because within each category of actual fighting men, we are superior. A single exception is Persia's excellent pikemen; but they are not numerous.
The final two columns are the average number of production and culture techs within the demesne, and again Rome stands out as having the most advanced economy and the most refined culture anywhere in the world. Of course this can hardly surprise anyone; after all, is it not truly said that there are Romans citizens, and then there are barbarians? The numbers do not lie, and why should they? They were invented by Romans, after all.
Last week I mentioned that I moved to Popular Law, reflecting the Mathian Reforms that restore some power to the Senate and the people, as against the Emperor and the magnates respectively. I hadn't realised that this means I'm forced to have scutage at 50%, limiting the number of troops I get from my vassals; but unintended effects of legal changes should not surprise anyone. In any case I'm pretty well stuck with it now.
However, while the Roman army is now a bit smaller, it punches well above its weight. Have a look at the percentage of each troop type in the various realms' demesnes:
Code:
HCav LCav HInf LInf Pike Arch Total
BOHE 0.17 0.24 0.10 0.38 0.04 0.08 262094
BULG 0.19 0.31 0.29 0.00 0.10 0.10 124315
CROA 0.17 0.21 0.11 0.39 0.06 0.06 103563
DENM 0.13 0.22 0.07 0.39 0.10 0.10 97476
LEON 0.13 0.12 0.28 0.19 0.08 0.20 197557
PERS 0.17 0.28 0.06 0.43 0.00 0.05 361046
RUSS 0.18 0.24 0.05 0.41 0.06 0.06 221577
MAML 0.17 0.24 0.07 0.40 0.06 0.06 82934
FATI 0.18 0.22 0.09 0.42 0.04 0.05 245446Note that this is demesne only, since my vassals are mostly not on Popular Law, although that should change as they get events. Bing, zero percent useless militia, thirty percent bitchin' heavy infantry, thirty percent howling Cossacks! And I still get more heavy cavalry than anyone else, in spite of the Feudal Contract most people are on - the exception being Leon with Royal Prerogative.
Demesne for demesne, then, I'll match my troops against anyone; take FATI as an example. Although his demesne troops would outnumber mine two to one, I would actually have more heavy infantry and pikemen, and the same number of archers. His militia, admittedly, would be good for soaking up the casualties; but I suspect I'd win the battle. As for Croatia, there is nothing I would like better than to see another lightly-armed horde of tribal levies dash themselves to pieces against the solid wall of disciplined Roman infantry, before the thunderous charge of the kataphrakts drove them from the field. The savage dash of the Cossacks gleefully spearing and sabring the panicked, fleeing remnants would be merely the final touch.
Since I was doing demesne statistics anyway, I decided to pick out the troop-type weights due to techs. The weight is defined as the attack plus defense weights, times the morale multiplier; I calculate the average over the demesne.
Code:
HCav LCav HInf LInf Pike Arch Prod Cult
BOHE 42.25 29.33 32.29 14.67 24.89 18.83 31.61 20.83
BULG 70.52 33.79 49.60 0.00 32.56 22.47 38.80 28.30
CROA 55.72 32.57 41.96 16.05 31.56 21.19 35.62 26.23
DENM 47.81 30.37 34.81 14.69 24.85 18.45 30.27 21.07
LEON 50.82 30.17 37.72 15.20 28.58 19.65 32.44 25.18
PERS 55.20 31.78 39.56 16.48 34.65 21.28 35.48 26.00
RUSS 54.26 31.34 40.89 16.18 31.77 20.89 35.67 25.67
MAML 44.27 30.20 32.40 14.76 25.72 19.35 30.83 22.25
FATI 59.29 32.00 41.59 15.79 30.33 20.68 37.05 28.57The conclusion is as clear, and as unexpected, as sunrise: Rome's troops are the finest in the world not only because we don't waste men as light infantry, but also because within each category of actual fighting men, we are superior. A single exception is Persia's excellent pikemen; but they are not numerous.
The final two columns are the average number of production and culture techs within the demesne, and again Rome stands out as having the most advanced economy and the most refined culture anywhere in the world. Of course this can hardly surprise anyone; after all, is it not truly said that there are Romans citizens, and then there are barbarians? The numbers do not lie, and why should they? They were invented by Romans, after all.
This has been an exciting game to follow.
I was rooting for the vikings and the greeks, but now the vikings have been replaced by impostors so I can no longer root for them.
I was rooting for the vikings and the greeks, but now the vikings have been replaced by impostors so I can no longer root for them.
replaced with what?? ... be carefull what you say sir, we are in board ship here!