Cherokee!

[Lord Finnish]

Here's the situation:

I just went through what I could only call my most painful westernization ever. 0 legitimacy coupled with absolutely terrible RNG wrecked my country and 10 years later I'm still paying back the loans. Thankfully I became Catholic early on and all my provinces have been converted thanks to counter-reformation.

But on the plus side as you can see I have enveloped a great deal of future lebensraum inside my turf.

Going for the argument I assume I'll need to take the two northernmost French/Floride provinces in the south and GB's Thirteen Colonies territories, along with Iroquois and the uncolonized turf of course.

Do I have any hope? While I could field close to 60k soldiers when I was still tribal now my forcelimit is something like 25k and when reforming government I lost all my buildings (load of BS) so I'm dirt poor with bad units, technologically backwards and have to beat France and GB in war.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

It is possible yes, once you catch up in tech and expand more. If you notice either nation a bit short on transports, nail them.

 

[Karabas1543]

Are you AT war? Why not just wait a bit, let a higher-legitimacy heir take the throne? In the meantime, put national focus on military and try to catch up before going to war?

 

[Krajzen]

One question, how do you have so few North American tribes? o_o

What happened, all of them migrated east and were exterminated?

 

[Lord Finnish]

One question, how do you have so few North American tribes? o_o

What happened, all of them migrated east and were exterminated?

Pretty much. I've conquered or diplovassalized every tribe that I could, some of them without CB (like when I conquered Manhattan to make it my capital when having no border with them.)

 

[-Malovane-]

Tips for future NA-tribal games:

1. Before reforming government, it's wise to have a large stockpile of cash and a giant stockpile of monarch points. You'll need them to spam buildings and load up on new ideas.

2. Waiting on reforming your government isn't a bad thing. You'll just come in at a higher tech level later on. Think of what you're giving up. An extra colonist. The -100% tech modifier. Low stability costs. High income for minimal investment. Great buildings. Massive troop numbers.

3. Rush to the Gulf of St. Lawrence as quickly as possible. Not only will this be the first place the Europeans arrive, it is the exit point for all trade leaving the continent. You will want as much trade power in this node as you can possibly muster. Stadacona is a nice capital. Doing this will require focusing on admin, and rushing through exploration (save the dip points). If you're on the south end of the continent, colonize up to the Iroquois, and annex them. This will get you into good position early enough for this.

4. If you can, colonize all the coastal territories in Chesapeake, Mississippi, Hudson, and Rio Grande before the Europeans get too much into St. Lawrence. Getting all of California and Gulf of St. Lawrence may not be possible, though it would be nice. Blocking further intrusion into the mainland is the goal.

5. After reforming government, focus on production and trade buildings. Everything else can wait. With the number of fur producing provinces at your disposal, you can achieve +50 to +100 income within a decade or two, depending upon starting capital. Trade companies on those fur provinces, combined with canals and roads, can provide some extreme income.

Now, in your current position, you're a Westernized Catholic nation. That means you're not in huge jeopardy at the moment - so focus on expansion and getting on parity with tech. You have solid control of the Chesapeake - and St. Lawrence is pretty much all taken at this point. Move your capital to Manhattan, if you have not already, and push trade there. Looks like you have a fair number of ships patrolling, so you're off to a good start on that front. Unfortunately, you won't get the nice fur provinces - so you'll have to settle for tobacco trading. Try to lock up Ohio, and prevent Spain from taking any more of Mississippi. Florida isn't a huge loss. The only purpose you might have for that is to divert trade from the Caribbean (which is quite lucrative) to the Chesapeake.

The game is salvageable. No worries.

 

[Lord Finnish]

Thanks for the tips.

 

[Umbosch]

Tips for future NA-tribal games:

1. Before reforming government, it's wise to have a large stockpile of cash and a giant stockpile of monarch points. You'll need them to spam buildings and load up on new ideas.

Its correct but look at the date. In AoW Europe will never colonize NA before 1545. First point is trade node Rio Grande. Most time they come there 5 years early. The other point is Unamakik. So there are more as enough monarchpoints. You have time to double this. In my Huron game i have techup to admin 4, army 2, finish exploration (3 colonists) and have build some buildings. Cash is the problem in AoW. 50% local autonomy slowly your expansion and hold your bank account low. Support from other natives come to late through the LA. At 1530 you have a a change with enough colonys, conquered natives and many buildings to spend 10 Gold to other.

First landing point NA

Second landing point. Holland is slepping. England have make the same on this position. Most time they colonize: first Unamakik, second Eskikewakik and then they jump to Taqumakuk and come not back. Have luck with Norway. Horun celebrate now the Leif Eirkson Day!

3. Rush to the Gulf of St. Lawrence as quickly as possible. Not only will this be the first place the Europeans arrive, it is the exit point for all trade leaving the continent. You will want as much trade power in this node as you can possibly muster. Stadacona is a nice capital. Doing this will require focusing on admin, and rushing through exploration (save the dip points). If you're on the south end of the continent, colonize up to the Iroquois, and annex them. This will get you into good position early enough for this.

Is not more the first place. But the best place for border contact. What i not understand is, that the techlevel from the europe are in AoW looks to low. Tech 12 at 1560?

4. If you can, colonize all the coastal territories in Chesapeake, Mississippi, Hudson, and Rio Grande before the Europeans get too much into St. Lawrence. Getting all of California and Gulf of St. Lawrence may not be possible, though it would be nice. Blocking further intrusion into the mainland is the goal.

I have think also. But in my actually game i have a other plan. Hope that he works. Colonize to Stadacona/ Atikamekw and wait that the KI colonize to me. Later i will conquer the provinces from the CN. 50 LA from Basetaxe 1 or 2 is to poor. But 13 colonys should be colonize by my self.

5. After reforming government, focus on production and trade buildings. Everything else can wait. With the number of fur producing provinces at your disposal, you can achieve +50 to +100 income within a decade or two, depending upon starting capital. Trade companies on those fur provinces, combined with canals and roads, can provide some extreme income.

You must find the balance to make money and reorganize your army. Make foottroops with mercenary and cavallery/ artillery with own soldier. You need a big fleet with heavy ships to kill all the transportships. And big mean more as 40. Forge strong alliances with other natives or europe. Have strong or many vasalls/ mark how Iroquois or other nations with good NI and high core creations.

Now, in your current position, you're a Westernized Catholic nation.

Why catholic? I stay at totemismus. Is there are good reasons how in Eu III to change religion?

 

[Lemont Elwood]

I had an awful experience as Comanche when I reformed my government. Basically, when Native Councils reform, they don't get to carry over any Buildings. As a result, you'll suddenly lose huge amounts of revenue, force limits… you become a specter of yourself. It's ridiculous, and it really should be patched so that your buildings convert to a normal one, with some combos giving you extra levels. The basic changes would be:
Longhouse -> Temple, Docks
Great Trail -> Armory
Three-Sisters Field -> Constable, Marketplace
Irrigation -> Constable, Marketplace
Palisades -> Earth Rampart
Earthwork -> Earth Rampart

With the Constable and Marketplace, it would be assumed that the Marketplace is built first, and then the Constable. With the Longhouse, you would gain a Temple in landlocked provinces and a Docks in coastal ones. If you have both Palisades and Earthwork, you'll get an Earth Rampart and an Armory. If you have Palisades, Earthworks, and a Great Trail… let's say, an Earth Rampart, an Armory, and one additional level of your Production Buildings. As for Unique Buildings:
Sweat Lodge -> Embassy
Fortified House -> March
Ceremonial Fire Pit -> Royal Palace

 

[Lord Finnish]

I had an awful experience as Comanche when I reformed my government. Basically, when Native Councils reform, they don't get to carry over any Buildings. As a result, you'll suddenly lose huge amounts of revenue, force limits… you become a specter of yourself. It's ridiculous, and it really should be patched so that your buildings convert to a normal one, with some combos giving you extra levels. The basic changes would be:
Longhouse -> Temple, Docks
Great Trail -> Armory
Three-Sisters Field -> Constable, Marketplace
Irrigation -> Constable, Marketplace
Palisades -> Earth Rampart
Earthwork -> Earth Rampart

With the Constable and Marketplace, it would be assumed that the Marketplace is built first, and then the Constable. With the Longhouse, you would gain a Temple in landlocked provinces and a Docks in coastal ones. If you have both Palisades and Earthwork, you'll get an Earth Rampart and an Armory. If you have Palisades, Earthworks, and a Great Trail… let's say, an Earth Rampart, an Armory, and one additional level of your Production Buildings. As for Unique Buildings:
Sweat Lodge -> Embassy
Fortified House -> March
Ceremonial Fire Pit -> Royal Palace

I agree. It makes no sense that decades of development is demolished when you UPGRADE your government, the resources that got you so capable in the first place.

Unique buildings shouldn't covert though, given how cheap they are for natives and how expensive the civilized uniques are it would be an unfair advantage for natives, having to pay only 8 gold for their embassy just because they built it a week before reforming.

 

[LordDamien]

Here's the situation:

I just went through what I could only call my most painful westernization ever. 0 legitimacy coupled with absolutely terrible RNG wrecked my country and 10 years later I'm still paying back the loans. Thankfully I became Catholic early on and all my provinces have been converted thanks to counter-reformation.

But on the plus side as you can see I have enveloped a great deal of future lebensraum inside my turf.

Going for the argument I assume I'll need to take the two northernmost French/Floride provinces in the south and GB's Thirteen Colonies territories, along with Iroquois and the uncolonized turf of course.

Do I have any hope? While I could field close to 60k soldiers when I was still tribal now my forcelimit is something like 25k and when reforming government I lost all my buildings (load of BS) so I'm dirt poor with bad units, technologically backwards and have to beat France and GB in war.

is it possible to play Natives without having Cop ?

 

[Lemont Elwood]

Yes, but it really sucks as they are stuck with their pre-COP features: no migrations, no native buildings, etc.

 

[LordDamien]

Yes, but it really sucks as they are stuck with their pre-COP features: no migrations, no native buildings, etc.

So its almost like required to get Cop just to get those improvements.. Hmm I guess I will get it after all !