Check Foreign Laws and Refuse Becoming HRE

[Manchester.bw]

1. You should be able to check the laws in other kingdoms. I spent about 20 years trying to inherit Flanders before I realized the French have the non-cross realm inheritance law enabled. A simple ledger page could have prevented this.

2. One of the problems of playing in the HRE is if you get elected emperor without your consent. If you own non-de jure land and get elected HRE AND THEN later lose HRE you lose all that non-de jure territory.

So say I'm Italy with the duchies in Switzerland as vassals. If I become HRE then LOSE the HRE after, I will lose those Swiss dukes to the new emperor. This can undo decades/centuries of work.

The fix for this is very simple... just let the player say "no" to being elected HRE.

 

[Sledjer]

What is the trick to accidentally getting elected? I hear about it a lot but I pretty much never get voted for unless I'm actively trying to get elected.

 

[Woifee]

What is the trick to accidentally getting elected? I hear about it a lot but I pretty much never get voted for unless I'm actively trying to get elected.

If you are a pious good, kind ruler you most likely get elected.

By now I always go for a female heir inside the HRE since it prevents me from getting elected.

 

[Fitzjacob]

So say I'm Italy with the duchies in Switzerland as vassals. If I become HRE then LOSE the HRE after, I will lose those Swiss dukes to the new emperor. This can undo decades/centuries of work.

This is not a comment on your suggestion but rather a solution for your problem.

If you want to keep vassals who are not de jure part of your primary title, then you simply needs to hold another title that they're a de jure part of. For instance, if you're the King of Italy and also have vassals in Switzerland (I'm guessing de jure Thurgau or Raetia) then simply create or revoke the duchies and hold them yourself. On succession you'll keep any vassal within those duchies if you lose the election. You can even increase your realm this way by revoking duchies for new vassals (Provance and Carinthia are good options) and then losing the election. You can even create additional kingdoms for yourself, but bear in mind that they will follow the primary title's succession law, probably elective. Also be careful of not holding too many duchies yourself as each duchy after the first two comes with an -10 opinion penalty.

 

[Manchester.bw]

This is not a comment on your suggestion but rather a solution for your problem.

If you want to keep vassals who are not de jure part of your primary title, then you simply needs to hold another title that they're a de jure part of. For instance, if you're the King of Italy and also have vassals in Switzerland (I'm guessing de jure Thurgau or Raetia) then simply create or revoke the duchies and hold them yourself. On succession you'll keep any vassal within those duchies if you lose the election. You can even increase your realm this way by revoking duchies for new vassals (Provance and Carinthia are good options) and then losing the election. You can even create additional kingdoms for yourself, but bear in mind that they will follow the primary title's succession law, probably elective. Also be careful of not holding too many duchies yourself as each duchy after the first two comes with an -10 opinion penalty.

Yeahh it's still not really workable though. You should just be able to refuse the election. Either that or they have to make a special system for the HRE. If the Habsburgs stopped being emperor they wouldn't just hand over their control of the Low Countries, Bohemia, and Milan to some guy in the Palatinate. It's just goofy the way it works.

 

[Castimirr]

1. You should be able to check the laws in other kingdoms. I spent about 20 years trying to inherit Flanders before I realized the French have the non-cross realm inheritance law enabled. A simple ledger page could have prevented this.

I would love the ability to see all of the laws in other realms. That said, you can see the active crown laws for other realms. In the de Jure Kingdom and de Jure Empire map modes, it will show when you hover over a province.

 

[Silversweeeper]

2. One of the problems of playing in the HRE is if you get elected emperor without your consent. If you own non-de jure land and get elected HRE AND THEN later lose HRE you lose all that non-de jure territory.

I'd prefer not to have a fix for that be HRE-exclusive, since there are other titles you might get elected to against your wishes.

 

[Fitzjacob]

If the Habsburgs stopped being emperor they wouldn't just hand over their control of the Low Countries, Bohemia, and Milan to some guy in the Palatinate.

That won't happen in CK2 either as long as they personally hold the appropriate titles. The Habsburgs were Kings of Bohemia, Dukes of Guelders, Limburg, Brabant, Burgundy and Counts of Zeeland, Holland, Flanders etc. It makes perfect sense that a ruler has to personally hold titles to ensure that they still have lawful authority after losing the election. And if the Habsburgs were to grant any of the above mentioned titles to vassals, it would pretty much amount to granting imperial immediacy.

Anyway, refusing the crown outright should perhaps be possible. Perhaps an alert when you're currently about to inherit a title of higher tier than your current with the possibility of ticking a checkbox (on a title by title basis) declaring your disinterest and giving you a -1000 appointment score.

As a side note, are there any historical examples of someone refusing a crown when offered (not Caesar; we're talking medieval era elections, not classical era PR campaigns)?

 

[Manchester.bw]

I would love the ability to see all of the laws in other realms. That said, you can see the active crown laws for other realms. In the de Jure Kingdom and de Jure Empire map modes, it will show when you hover over a province.
View attachment 501752

I will have a look for this thanks!

 

[Woifee]

Yeahh it's still not really workable though. You should just be able to refuse the election. Either that or they have to make a special system for the HRE. If the Habsburgs stopped being emperor they wouldn't just hand over their control of the Low Countries, Bohemia, and Milan to some guy in the Palatinate. It's just goofy the way it works.

That won't happen in CK2 either as long as they personally hold the appropriate titles. The Habsburgs were Kings of Bohemia, Dukes of Guelders, Limburg, Brabant, Burgundy and Counts of Zeeland, Holland, Flanders etc. It makes perfect sense that a ruler has to personally hold titles to ensure that they still have lawful authority after losing the election. And if the Habsburgs were to grant any of the above mentioned titles to vassals, it would pretty much amount to granting imperial immediacy.

Anyway, refusing the crown outright should perhaps be possible. Perhaps an alert when you're currently about to inherit a title of higher tier than your current with the possibility of ticking a checkbox (on a title by title basis) declaring your disinterest and giving you a -1000 appointment score.

As a side note, are there any historical examples of someone refusing a crown when offered (not Caesar; we're talking medieval era elections, not classical era PR campaigns)?

Maybe not refusal but not running for the crown. To be able to be elected a character should first say he wants to have it.

 

[Heiliges Thüringens Reich]

2. One of the problems of playing in the HRE is if you get elected emperor without your consent. If you own non-de jure land and get elected HRE AND THEN later lose HRE you lose all that non-de jure territory.

So say I'm Italy with the duchies in Switzerland as vassals. If I become HRE then LOSE the HRE after, I will lose those Swiss dukes to the new emperor. This can undo decades/centuries of work.

The fix for this is very simple... just let the player say "no" to being elected HRE.

Damn yes to this. Started a game as Bavarian duke in 936, was elected King of Germany. If I lose the election for my heir, all those non-Bavarian counts will not serve me anymore! Ugh.

 

[Arheilgen]

As a side note, are there any historical examples of someone refusing a crown when offered

Not "when offered", because "offered" would mean an election took place - and election will only consider willing candidates.

But there were occasions when nobody wanted to be a candidate.
Most notably the "Interregnum" 1250-1273, when after the death of Friedrich II there were no eligible close relatives and none of the other princes dared to put himself forward.

Interregnum (Holy Roman Empire) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org