Charles the bold, duke of Burgundy may be a little bit too bold

[Revan F]

I mean, Ok That's historcial and Charles the Bold declares a lot of wars he can't win. In game, he tends tu suicide himself againt Liege or Savoy, failing to take into account the real number of troops he will face (Maybe the IA Don't understand that all Austrian's allies will come to help?). Problem is : each time, the peace deal includes Burgundy loosing its PU's. All the new content designed for netherlands become useless : no Dutch revolts, and no united provinces.

 

[PurpulaPhoenixum53]

I mean, Ok That's historcial and Charles the Bold declares a lot of wars he can't win. In game, he tends tu suicide himself againt Liege or Savoy, failing to take into account the real number of troops he will face (Maybe the IA Don't understand that all Austrian's allies will come to help?). Problem is : each time, the peace deal includes Burgundy loosing its PU's. All the new content designed for netherlands become useless : no Dutch revolts, and no united provinces.

While I'm okay with Charles suicide attacking into Savoy or Liege, as he did historically. I absolutely agree with the frustration around the Netherlands. I have yet to see the Dutch Revolt break out. I think that the problem as you have stated is that the AI likes to break Personal Unions/Subjects if it doesn't want any land. I think that a potential solution is that if Burgundy at any point loses all of its personal unions, that can potentially trigger the Burgundian Succession Crisis (as if Charles had died). If thats too extreme if the Burgundian Personal Unions are broken it triggers the associated the Imperial Incident.

 

[corgi911]

I mean, Ok That's historcial and Charles the Bold declares a lot of wars he can't win

My recommendation after some burgundian games: you start with strong ruler and with him you can enlarge and unite Burgundy (trade, production etc).
Charles was never bold but stupid. In my last game I didnt get the famous Marie but a weak male heir which I replace. So now wait* till Charles die and than you can continue. * You can explore or develop your production but avoid any war because he is a weak ruler. Even diploannexing your vassal and the 3 PUs!

 

[Gratak]

The problem isn't Charles. It's the AI STILL not understanding about Austria's allies.

 

[Aussiehawker]

Burgundy will even attack into the Empire, while allied to the Emperor and having 200/200 relations with me as Austria. I was on the verge of winning my PU war with Bohemia, but even discounting my armies entirely, my allies still had more armies then Burgundy and friends (since he had no other ally than me, who he attacked).

 

[unmerged(771301)]

I brought this issue up once in another thread, back when Emperor was first released. It irks me so much.

I understand the historicity of his personality trait (that's what causes him to declare suicidal wars), as well as the desire of both devs and players to not railroad a particular outcome (say, Burgundy always holding onto its PUs), but it is annoying that I very often never get the full inheritance or get to see or engage with the Dutch revolt. I don't have an answer to this situation, I'm just trying to express my solidarity with the issue raised.

I think that the problem as you have stated is that the AI likes to break Personal Unions/Subjects if it doesn't want any land. I think that a potential solution is that if Burgundy at any point loses all of its personal unions, that can potentially trigger the Burgundian Succession Crisis (as if Charles had died). If thats too extreme if the Burgundian Personal Unions are broken it triggers the associated the Imperial Incident.

I do like this potential solution.

My recommendation after some burgundian games: you start with strong ruler and with him you can enlarge and unite Burgundy (trade, production etc).
Charles was never bold but stupid. In my last game I didnt get the famous Marie but a weak male heir which I replace. So now wait* till Charles die and than you can continue. * You can explore or develop your production but avoid any war because he is a weak ruler. Even diploannexing your vassal and the 3 PUs!

This thread is not about a player-controlled Burgundy . . .

 

[Vin55]

The thing is in Game he is shown as one of the worst rulers. Although historical he was at the height of the burgundian power the richest man of Europe (they should fix that the Pus themselves make 0 sense) and was only denied the kingdom because he was to bossy to the german electors the empire feared him. He only lost against the swiss because of the new war techniques of using helbards and killing knights with masses of infantry units.
He deserves to be better and they should have had an event for him to become king diplomaticially if he bribes the reich or something.

 

[EarlKonrad]

I mean, Ok That's historcial and Charles the Bold declares a lot of wars he can't win. In game, he tends tu suicide himself againt Liege or Savoy, failing to take into account the real number of troops he will face (Maybe the IA Don't understand that all Austrian's allies will come to help?). Problem is : each time, the peace deal includes Burgundy loosing its PU's. All the new content designed for netherlands become useless : no Dutch revolts, and no united provinces.

Can't you see that this was his plan all along? Burgundy can't get wrecked by the bad events if they hold no PU! Charles the bold? More like Charles the Cleaver.

In all seriousness, I'm yet to see the dutch Revolt as well but I don't think I've seen the AI break Burgundy's PUs not once. I do see a lot of strange things happen like an HRE OPM getting Burgundy as a PU because of events.

 

[Beagá]

I think it's hilarious lol

 

[Meglok]

Anyone bug reported this?

If the new 1.30 burgundy ai coding is breaking the possibility of the Dutch Revolt happening then that is a problem. Either the ai needs to be blocked from negating Burgundian PUs when Charles the Bold becomes Charles the Idiot Who Takes on the Entire HRE, or the parameters of the Dutch Revolt need to be revised. The Dutch Revolt is a major event in Europe that was the catalyst of a lot of change and important events in history.

 

[PurpulaPhoenixum53]

Anyone bug reported this?

If the new 1.30 burgundy ai coding is breaking the possibility of the Dutch Revolt happening then that is a problem. Either the ai needs to be blocked from negating Burgundian PUs when Charles the Bold becomes Charles the Idiot Who Takes on the Entire HRE, or the parameters of the Dutch Revolt need to be revised. The Dutch Revolt is a major event in Europe that was the catalyst of a lot of change and important events in history.

I could make a report, but everything is WAD. The only real change that I would suggest is that in defensive wars, the defender cannot end personal unions. It would block Liege from breaking the Burgundian Unions, but it seems too broad.

 

[Aussiehawker]

Burgundy should really get an event making Charles a general. Just for some flavour and to make it happen a bit earlier, instead of him dragging into his 60s-70s.

 

[Gratak]

I could make a report, but everything is WAD. The only real change that I would suggest is that in defensive wars, the defender cannot end personal unions. It would block Liege from breaking the Burgundian Unions, but it seems too broad.

That doesn't make any sense. Ending subjects is one of the most reasonable things to do in a defensive war for the AI. They can't really that that much land in many cases since they might not actually have it set as interest.

Burgundy should really get an event making Charles a general. Just for some flavour and to make it happen a bit earlier, instead of him dragging into his 60s-70s.

Doesn't AI usually male their rulers into general? At least it seems that the chance of an AI ruler dying is much higher when they are at war.

 

[makaramus]

Burgundy will even attack into the Empire, while allied to the Emperor and having 200/200 relations with me as Austria. I was on the verge of winning my PU war with Bohemia, but even discounting my armies entirely, my allies still had more armies then Burgundy and friends (since he had no other ally than me, who he attacked).

I think AI is like "ok he is in another war, in good relations with me and got debt there is no way he will join to war" but you do anyway because you are player and playing HRE game so you will join even if you gonna lose war

 

[brantodb01]

AI burgundy should really have the inheritance fire if they're losing by 50% warscore or more but be unable to chose who they're fighting

 

[Nyanako]

4The Dutch Revolt is a major event in Europe that was the catalyst of a lot of change and important events in history.

But here's the thing. The Dutch Revolt wasn't a fait accompli, there were significant events that happened in the late 1400's and early 1500's that pushed them into rebellion. Charles ruled from Brussels, not Toledo, it was the hard-headed personality of Phillip, the centralist regulations, and most importantly, the reformation which drove the Low Countries into rebellion. If different decisions were made, maybe the estates would be happy with continued Hapsburg rule, the low countries did benefit significantly from Spanish trade with the Americas.
While I do agree that the Dutch revolt should happen, it shouldn't always happen. I am strongly against railroading events, such as the Dutch Revolt and even the Burgundian Succession. At least the succession crisis is interesting now; but it still feels railroaded

 

[Meglok]

I could make a report, but everything is WAD. The only real change that I would suggest is that in defensive wars, the defender cannot end personal unions. It would block Liege from breaking the Burgundian Unions, but it seems too broad.

WAD does not mean working as intended. The nasty gremlin called unintended consequences has been known to blow up the best plans of coders. Just because Charles and Burgundy is now designed to launch the foolish wars that he historical began does not mean it was intended to blow up the whole Dutch Revolt event chain.

I would still bug report this and let QA take a look at it.

 

[Travis_Bickle]

I also find this very frustrating. I do everything I can as France to keep them out of insane wars because of the inheritance, but they just go wild. I've seen them end up in a war vs an Iberian wedding Spain, Austria and Hungary amongst others only to DoW on the emperor again later.

 

[LukasYork]

Yeah, same here, was playing France a few days ago, allied Burgundy, even gave them Calais in a peace deal with England and not even 10 years into the game I see Burgundy lost PU's over Brabant and Holland FOR NO REASON. THey didn't even lose a war, they actually won against Provence and got 3 provinces in Lorraine and then just released these PUs. What the actual fuck?