Charlemagne's HRE should not be princely elective

Charlemagne's HRE should not be princely elective

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When neo-Paradox released the Holy Fury expansion (a blatant copy of several workshop mods holding little relevance to one another) in 2018 I decided to replay the Charlemagne railroad story, one of my favourites. Immediately it became obvious to me that there was a bug, namely the intrigue decision to form the Holy Roman Empire. The decision would now forfeit all kingdoms and introduce princely elective as the succession type.

charlemagne HRE.png


Now this seemed like a bug for several reasons;

Firstly it was not historically accurate whilst the pre-Holy Fury decision to have a gavelking empire was. Charlemagne did not forfeit his newly conquered kingdoms and this much was evidently known by the team who created The Old Gods expansion as the remnants of the HRE is split between several kingdoms in the 867 starting date. Princely elective only became relevant in the Ottonian HRE revival and should only be used at start dates relevant for it.

Secondly the decision doesn't flow well with the story nor the gameplay. After conquering Lombardy the HRE would usually be formed before the Saxon Wars. This however is now a hurdle as it requires an opinion of 25 from the Pope, who now due to the Papal States addition to the game has a hefty -75 opinion modifer that needs overcome. The Duchy of Ferrara and Spoleto along with the County of Orvieto that are conquered with Lombardy are desired by the Pope and to negate this you either have to absolutely shower him in attention or somehow wrestle control of the areas from an already rebellious population all whilst administering a realm with far too many vassals and a desperate need for Empire status. Often this cannot be done before the Saxon Wars trigger, and if you want to continue the historical Charlemagne playthrough you now have the pagan doomstacks to deal with. There isn't a single reason why a player wouldn't now simply form the superior Empire of Francia that comes without the headaches and for cheaper.

However it is now September of 2020 and it has been two years since the release of Holy Fury. I can only assume this princely elective 769 mess was intentional. The game remains the same and to add insult to injury the Charlemagne start date isn't even in CK3. Paradox claims not enough people cared for the start date to even include it. Constant promotion updates in CK2 for the new title have come and went but not a single simple fix for this element that effectively ruins the Charlemagne story. A $10 dlc now ruined by a $20 dlc, as if a more fitting image of the new Paradox management was needed. I highly doubt the staff will read nor care for this thread since they have a running complacency spurred on by hack videogame reviewers with under ten hours playtime hailing CK3 as "one of the greatest grand strategies ever made" but I hope for an olive branch and this much needed fix to a game that I've spent 1500 hours of my life on.
 
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Gunthah

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To be honest, treating Charlemagne’s empire the same as the later Holy Roman Empire makes no sense in CK2 terms. Following gameplay rules, his empire would basically be him holding many kingdom titles with gavelkind succession and being called Emperor almost as some sort of CK2 minor title.
 
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Crimson Grog

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However it is now September of 2020 and it has been two years since the release of Holy Fury. I can only assume this princely elective 769 mess was intentional.
I wouldn't assume this was intentional given Holy Fury's unfortunate track record of issues that have not been fixed (super overpowered Crusades, multiple pagan reformation doctrine bugs). I wouldn't be surprised if Princely Elective was implemented with 1066+ HRE in mind (and later 936) and they completely forgot about the earlier start dates.

Personally I'm about to make the jump to HIP. I know the most recent updates have been trying to fix/improve issues with pagan doctrines and elective succession, among other things of course.
 
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valvegas1

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Honestly, it sounds like a small issue that could be fixed with a mini-mod very quickly...I'd be happy to make a run at it if you'd like...I've never personally run through the Charlemagne story before but it's on my bucket list before I move to CK3
 
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vandevere

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Actually, when Charlemagne's brother dies and he inherits all that land, the option to create the Empire of Francia pops up almost immediately. There's no need for Charlemagne to create the HRE...
 
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