Characters cheat far too often and "Seduce" is either pointless or badly implemented.

[Seclouds]

There wasnt genetic testing, which is why a wife cheating brings even her legitimate children into question, especially in cases where the child resembles the lover

Things happened. It's medvial age, again.
I mean, players can always play the female character. I have some muslim equality run, Berber and Baloch character, it's fun.
The wife could have child when the husband was out for yrs and claimed the child was the gift of god in that days.
LOL

 

[void0x00]

What I want to ask is, do you love your wife?
100 opinion is just opinion, it is not love, not friend
how common it was all relying on the contract of marriage, with no attempt to establish a relation?

 

[YellowPress]

Things happened. It's medvial age, again.
I mean, players can always play the female character. I have some muslim equality run, Berber and Baloch character, it's fun.
The wife could have child when the husband was out for yrs and claimed the child was the gift of god in that days.
LOL

Ck2 got ai seduction on off because of complaints, ck3 currently has no such thing so daughters you keep around for alliances will just sleep with random knights
If you could treat people's complaints a bit more seriously that would be appreciated

 

[Rubidium]

Things happened. It's medvial age, again.
I mean, players can always play the female character. I have some muslim equality run, Berber and Baloch character, it's fun.
The wife could have child when the husband was out for yrs and claimed the child was the gift of god in that days.
LOL

Yes, it's the medieval age. Which, in an age without the Pill, with very little freedom for women, and with a strong emphasis on chastity, meant that women had few opportunities to cheat on their husbands. They might be able to get away with sleeping with a social superior as a more or less recognized "kept mistress" (if the king says he wants to sleep with your wife, random minor noble has few options), but not with people below them (such as a queen sleeping with a random courtier).

That was even more true for high status women (such as...basically everyone we play in game).

Game of Thrones is not a remotely accurate simulation of actual medieval life. And sorry, medieval folks were fully aware of how children were made; "it was a gift of god" wasn't going to cut it.

 

[Nevars]

I really wish people would run statistic on these instead of bogged down in useless 'in my opinion and anecdote the ladies doth cheating too much' and 'nah they don't, trust me I also have my anecdote'.

Both are just opinion with no hard evidence backing up, even mine.

You will never convince anyone with just that.

So if we actually have hard evidence, statistic, etc. backing our case up then we can actually demand paradox to change it for the better.

 

[Varren]

See fodazd's topic linked earlier in the thread. You can look up all of those events yourself; they all force adultery without checking whether that actually makes sense.

 

[void0x00]

seduce scheme has this check for AI to AI,

is_below_ai_lover_soft_cap_trigger = {
        trigger_if = {
                limit = { is_ai = yes }

                trigger_if = {
                        limit = {
                                has_trait = lustful
                                has_trait = seducer
                                has_focus = intrigue_temptation_focus
                        }
                        num_of_relation_lover < 3
                }
                trigger_else = {
                        num_of_relation_lover < 1
                }
        }
        trigger_else = {
                always = yes
        }
}

so it should be impossible to seduce a wife if she was already in romance with her spouse.
and might_cheat_on_partner_trigger did make a opinion check on spouse(with a threshold lower than lover)
exceptions are those listed by fodazd, I had read some of them, I agree that dont make sense,
but by the frequency of yearly event, I hard to believe there is so many.

so I would like to know for those got cheated, how many did romance with wife, has a look on her personality and lifestyle that not lustful or something

 

[Amtep]

I might let a game run in observer mode for a while and then try to count. (Automated count of course)

It's a bit difficult to collect solid stats on seduction because not all of the encounters result in a pregnancy. Counting just the resulting bastards would be easier but it's an undercount. Counting "lover" relationships is also an undercount, because seduction can be one-off and also because lover relationships can end. Anyone have ideas for how to count all forms of cheating?

 

[MoeinSS]

Yeah, this should be fixed. There is way too much adultery going on right now.

 

[YellowPress]

seduce scheme has this check for AI to AI,

is_below_ai_lover_soft_cap_trigger = {
        trigger_if = {
                limit = { is_ai = yes }

                trigger_if = {
                        limit = {
                                has_trait = lustful
                                has_trait = seducer
                                has_focus = intrigue_temptation_focus
                        }
                        num_of_relation_lover < 3
                }
                trigger_else = {
                        num_of_relation_lover < 1
                }
        }
        trigger_else = {
                always = yes
        }
}

so it should be impossible to seduce a wife if she was already in romance with her spouse.
and might_cheat_on_partner_trigger did make a opinion check on spouse(with a threshold lower than lover)
exceptions are those listed by fodazd, I had read some of them, I agree that dont make sense,
but by the frequency of yearly event, I hard to believe there is so many.

so I would like to know for those got cheated, how many did romance with wife, has a look on her personality and lifestyle that not lustful or something

I shouldn't have to romance my wife every time, when I'm Catholic so can imprison and execute my wife for cheating on me. If you marry heirs before playing as them you also can't prevent them cheating

 

[YellowPress]

I really wish people would run statistic on these instead of bogged down in useless 'in my opinion and anecdote the ladies doth cheating too much' and 'nah they don't, trust me I also have my anecdote'.

Both are just opinion with no hard evidence backing up, even mine.

You will never convince anyone with just that.

So if we actually have hard evidence, statistic, etc. backing our case up then we can actually demand paradox to change it for the better.

If you have neither eyes to see nor ears to hear then its unlikely people will change their minds. What evidence will convince someone who earnestly believes the below

There wasn't genetic testing in medvial age, you know the child was from your daughter's belly, that's enough.
It's a RPG game in some way, turning the blind eye will make your have a happy game time.

 

[Torredebelem]

And yes, it is far more common in-game than in reality (and don't get me started about incest). High-ranking women (especially queens!) would rarely be able to find private time to meet with lovers; servants were everywhere, and a woman meeting privately with a man outside her family would likely raise eyebrows and get out fairly quickly.

Not to argue about the over inflation of cheating in the game, which is true, but there were several cases where this happened and the couple just accepted it matter of factly, both ways, in their marriage, as long as bastards from the female part were not conceived (could be proven if the husband had no sex with the wife while she got pregnant).

 

[Dread Og]

Just to update my opinion. I think "narrative wise" where I'm paying attention to my rulers and discovered adultery it's "tolerable" but I'm not a fan of random characters having a high seduction chance just because they have the seduction focus.

Seducing the wife of a King/Emperor wasn't just medieval hijinks. It threatened the succession and stability of the realm and was considered treason. I arrested the King of Galicia (seduction focus) for having a bastard with my wife and I was told executing him was "tyranny." He died as quickly as I could click execute but this wasn't random man commits adultery which is just shunned. It's treason against the Emperor and the game didn't seem to understand this.

Real history: Nobody was laughing when a random knight climbed into your daughter's window. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tour_de_Nesle_affair

 

[Rubidium]

I shouldn't have to romance my wife every time, when I'm Catholic so can imprison and execute my wife for cheating on me. If you marry heirs before playing as them you also can't prevent them cheating

Don't worry, as fodazd's comment shows, even romancing her won't stop her from cheating, as there are plenty of events which will force a seduction without checking.

 

[Spaninq]

Real history: Nobody was laughing when a random knight climbed into your daughter's window. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tour_de_Nesle_affair

The irony of Braveheart changing the narrative so Isabella (the one that made the accusations) ends up sleeping with William Wallace.

 

[Amtep]

Okay, I let an observer game run for 100 years and then counted the cheaters.

I did it by making a little mod that added this code to the had_sex_with_effect:

        if = {
                limit = {
                        NOR = {
                                is_spouse_of = $CHARACTER$
                                is_concubine_of = $CHARACTER$
                                $CHARACTER$ = { is_concubine_of = had_sex_root_character }
                        }
                }
                add_character_flag = has_cheated_flag
                $CHARACTER$ = {
                        add_character_flag = has_cheated_flag
                }
       }

This turned out to be an undercount because there is also had_sex_with_unknown_effect, but I didn't want to wait another 100 years.

I then analyzed the savefile and counted these numbers:

all living characters: 3.8% cheated
living rulers (Count+): 36% cheated (!)
living rulers spouses: 6.5% cheated
living rulers adult children: 3.1% cheated
living rulers adult siblings: 14% cheated

It seems droit de seigneur is alive and well in CK3

Edit: the living rulers value was actually 27%. I miscalculated.

 

[Nevars]

Okay, I let an observer game run for 100 years and then counted the cheaters.

I did it by making a little mod that added this code to the had_sex_with_effect:

        if = {
                limit = {
                        NOR = {
                                is_spouse_of = $CHARACTER$
                                is_concubine_of = $CHARACTER$
                                $CHARACTER$ = { is_concubine_of = had_sex_root_character }
                        }
                }
                add_character_flag = has_cheated_flag
                $CHARACTER$ = {
                        add_character_flag = has_cheated_flag
                }
       }

This turned out to be an undercount because there is also had_sex_with_unknown_effect, but I didn't want to wait another 100 years.

I then analyzed the savefile and counted these numbers:

all living characters: 3.8% cheated
living rulers (Count+): 36% cheated (!)
living rulers spouses: 6.5% cheated
living rulers adult children: 3.1% cheated
living rulers adult siblings: 14% cheated

It seems droit de seigneur is alive and well in CK3

Interesting, this doesn't seem to be too bad tbh, just 6.5% cheated.

This is why I always have dissonance with what people claimed, 'almost all wives and female relatives cheat'.

Thus my claimed of there isn't much cheating (wives and females relatives).

 

[fodazd]

Okay, I let an observer game run for 100 years and then counted the cheaters.

I did it by making a little mod that added this code to the had_sex_with_effect:

        if = {
                limit = {
                        NOR = {
                                is_spouse_of = $CHARACTER$
                                is_concubine_of = $CHARACTER$
                                $CHARACTER$ = { is_concubine_of = had_sex_root_character }
                        }
                }
                add_character_flag = has_cheated_flag
                $CHARACTER$ = {
                        add_character_flag = has_cheated_flag
                }
       }

This turned out to be an undercount because there is also had_sex_with_unknown_effect, but I didn't want to wait another 100 years.

I then analyzed the savefile and counted these numbers:

all living characters: 3.8% cheated
living rulers (Count+): 36% cheated (!)
living rulers spouses: 6.5% cheated
living rulers adult children: 3.1% cheated
living rulers adult siblings: 14% cheated

It seems droit de seigneur is alive and well in CK3

had_sex_with_effect does not detect all adultery. There are also a lot of events that directly set a lover relation without calling had_sex_with_effect (or checking might_cheat_on_partner_trigger).

EDIT:
-> In order to detect these other forms of adultery, a monthly or yearly check if characters have a lover that is not their spouse and then setting the flag might do the trick. I don't know how that would affect performance though.
-> I would be interested in the adultery rates of rulers and spouses/children of rulers of king+ tier, because of the adultery introduced by royal court events.

 

[YellowPress]

Interesting, this doesn't seem to be too bad tbh, just 6.5% cheated.

This is why I always have dissonance with what people claimed, 'almost all wives and female relatives cheat'.

Thus my claimed of there isn't much cheating (wives and females relatives).

36% of counts cheating is bad, especially if you guess female rulers to be about 1/4 of all rulers after a few generations with how many titles start male preference not male only
6.5% of spouses is bad considering how most religions thatll lead to executions

 

[Amtep]

had_sex_with_effect does not detect all adultery. There are also a lot of events that directly set a lover relation without calling had_sex_with_effect (or checking might_cheat_on_partner_trigger).

That's true. I should check set_relation_lover and add_secret = { type = secret_lover }. What about soulmates?

It's weird, there's code that sets the lover relation AND the secret.