changing rate of org loss during movements

[arl]

I'm starting this thread in order to summarize what emerged by a previous thread regarding new org system.

I think that Flharfh perfectly pointed the current situation.

I have to agree, an unpleasant side effect of the combat changes is that it is super tedious to wage war in low infra / bad terrain. It's a perfect storm of factors:

1) low base org from the new combat changes
2) automatic infra loss on province capture leading to terrible org regain
3) -.48 org/day loss while marching
4) long distances + low infra + bad terrain

In the discussion emerged that would be nice to reduce the daily org loss while marching, but it seems it cannot be done trough misc.txt.

Strangely, devs were almost totally missing in that discussion, so another goal of this thread is to attract their attention.

While understanding that you devs are working hard to check, balance, answer to bug report etc, and probably also thinking about what emerged by the previous thread on the same topic, would be nice to have a feedback about that, even just reassuring us about you consider it a problem (or not) and if you're going to take in consideration the possibility of a change (or not).

Thanks!

edit: a quick fix has been provided by DivineShadow. You can find here and here (dedicated thread)

 

[SpaceViking]

Maybe you should post this in the bugs section to get more attention.

 

[Engage8]

Still no help here, eh? I guess they are playing in the European theater and aren't having the same issue?

 

[arl]

I tried to PM MartinBG but he exceeded his PM quota. So I wrote a "visitor message" on his homepage. let's try this way...

 

[unmerged(50895)]

Fingers crossed. Curious though, usually the devs respond to issues like this, without the need to draw their attention. Perhaps to busy with RC2?

 

[jjann]

It is indeed a problem, sometimes when you arive in a captured province in difficult terrain and you get attacked, you loose in a very short time because of low org.

 

[korodikrisz]

Why not Zoidberg? I mean... Why not Bug Reports?

 

[Engage8]

I tried to PM MartinBG but he exceeded his PM quota. So I wrote a "visitor message" on his homepage. let's try this way...

Any luck with that so far?

 

[arl]

Any luck with that so far?

no... maybe we should move it into "bug reports"

 

[MartinBG]

The total ORG loss on movement is not a fixed value.
It is calculated every hour for each division and is based on many factors (ESE, distance to capital, in supply/fuel or not, etc.;Morale is the most important) some of which are moddable already.

 

[arl]

The total ORG loss on movement is not a fixed value.
It is calculated every hour for each division and is based on many factors (ESE, distance to capital, in supply/fuel or not, etc.;Morale is the most important) some of which are moddable already.

Thanks for your interest! I'd like to know if you consider the current situation as WAD ie: is the ORG loss rate intentend to be so high? Because it seems to be the cause of some problems, as described in linked thread.

 

[MartinBG]

ORG loss while moving is not a fixed value. It is recalculated each hour for every division and is based on many factors like ESE, is the unit supplied, distance to capital etc. with Morale being the most important of all.

EDIT:
Sorry for the double post. My browser crashed, so I made a new post later without checking if the first one failed or not. o

 

[arl]

Thanks MartingBG, I got the point.So, putting it simple, it seems that it is WAD.

Still, it seems, to me at least, that in rough terrain with big provinces (eg: SouthAmerica) the actual org loss is very high.
(Variable) daily rate may be ok, but you've to consider that with the new movement speeds moving from one province to another in SA can take more than 2 months (because of jungle,low infra and big distances).
Sure, researching jungle equipment,increasing infra and raising morale (nice to know it is so important in this calculation) may help, but the org loss still seems high.

Anyway, if you say that is WAD, maybe we have to get used to the new system...

 

[MartinBG]

Yes, most of this is WAD (at least as we talk about engine mechanics). Unit speed (in general or on particular terrain type) and morale from the other hand can always be tweaked if needed. I would go with speed tweak on rough terrain as it is the safest change of all, but to be honest nether me or any of my mates have time to look into this deep enough to tweak it properly (if there's need to make a change at all).

 

[Cybvep]

Is it WAD that it takes months to get from province X to province Y and that a division arrives with little or no ORG and is immediately routed, which means that it has to walk for several months back to the previous province? =/

 

[SpaceViking]

Unfortunately as a player you can work around this but the AI doesn't seem able to. In my current game as Italy I think I can hold off the British in Sudan forever.

They attack me and I retreat. Before the attackers arrive I can strategic transfer some fresh units into the province and they will defeat the exhausted advancing forces. We've danced this dance about a dozen times now.

On attack you can do the same thing. When your exhausted forces arrive strategic transfer in some fresh ones. If the exhausted ones get attacked they lose and retreat but your fresh troops will defeat the attackers once they arrive.

 

[Engage8]

Is it WAD that it takes months to get from province X to province Y and that a division arrives with little or no ORG and is immediately routed, which means that it has to walk for several months back to the previous province? =/

+1

And the Strat. Redeploy option is gamey at best.

 

[SpaceViking]

If you don't use the strategic redeploy thing you may never be able to take over provinces in low infrastructure areas. I know when I tried Brazil versus Argentina I attacked one province 10 or 12 times and could never hold it despite my force being larger and better. It was like they'd get there and someone would only then mention, "Hey, did anyone pack lunch? No? Crap. Back to Brazil!"

 

[Engage8]

If you don't use the strategic redeploy thing you may never be able to take over provinces in low infrastructure areas. I know when I tried Brazil versus Argentina I attacked one province 10 or 12 times and could never hold it despite my force being larger and better. It was like they'd get there and someone would only then mention, "Hey, did anyone pack lunch? No? Crap. Back to Brazil!"

Lol. I hear ya, and I appreciate the advice. But you shouldn't HAVE to use Strategic Redploy
to conquer rough terrain. Granted it should be more difficult to conquer, but not impossible as it stands now.

 

[Eh up me duck]

Unfortunately as a player you can work around this but the AI doesn't seem able to. In my current game as Italy I think I can hold off the British in Sudan forever.

They attack me and I retreat. Before the attackers arrive I can strategic transfer some fresh units into the province and they will defeat the exhausted advancing forces. We've danced this dance about a dozen times now.

On attack you can do the same thing. When your exhausted forces arrive strategic transfer in some fresh ones. If the exhausted ones get attacked they lose and retreat but your fresh troops will defeat the attackers once they arrive.

The designers should completely re-do the combat mechanic because you exploit the AI over it on one of the least important fronts in the entire war?

Makes sense to me.