Changing inheritance laws

[unmerged(6250)]

Is there anypoint changing inheritance laws after the start? As I see it, drop of loyalty with every vassal is way too high. I had 100% loyalty with each of my vassals and after I decided to change the law, the loyalty dropped to 0% with every single vassal I had. Result was a major war with vassals so I decided to reload. It seems that only good time to change inheritance laws is in the beginning when one does not own vassals or only owns few of thems...
Is this feature intended?

 

[Aquitaine]

I'm pretty sure it is intended. So much energy was spent in feudal intrigue and jockeying for succession that to actually go and change the rules of succession was pretty unheard of.

Although, I did this as the Duke of Toulouse in the very beginning and only had two counts rebel, so it was quite manageable. Just a bit of a BB hit to take their provincs back. Not everyone revolts at 0%.

 

[Ernst]

In fact, the few changes in inheritance laws I can remind of in Europe all led to major wars :

When King Philippe le Long of France adopted Salic Law, it led to the 100 year war.
When Maria of Burgundy inherited her Burgundian lands (thus opposing the same salic law), her liege King Louis XI of France ruined the whole duchy.
The various brutal changes in English Kings led to the war of the Roses which paralyzed England for years.
Later, changes in succession laws in Spain and Austria led to major European conflicts.

In fact, modifying a coma in those (often non-written) laws is modifying a quasi-divine order, which IMO should lead to major unrests all over the country.

 

[magicpiper97]

Certainly there should be huge penalties (in terms of vassal loyalty) when changing succession laws, but these shouldn't always apply to ALL your vassals, across the board.

If you change to a law that actually improves the succession outlook for some of your vassals, shouldn't they get a loyalty boost, rather than a penalty?

 

[Basil II]

If changing sucession laws are so rough, I'd say the best time to change it would be if you are a count, since you have no vassals...

Change it to what you want early. I'm assuming you keep your own "laws" with you if you gain other titles (Duke, King, etc) later on...

 

[unmerged(3756)]

Is there any point in changing succession laws after the start? Yes - to prevent someone from inheriting, or to ensure your dynasty doesn't fail. Different situations call for different laws. If your first five sons where inbred morons and your sixth a worthy heir, then changing the succesion laws could be alot easier then 5 assassinations, for instance.

 

[Basil II]

What are the different types of inheritance laws, and what do they do?

 

[unmerged(21447)]

What are the different types of inheritance laws, and what do they do?

Primogeniture = the first son inherits
Consanguinity = the strongest son inherits
Gavelkind = all sons inherits, spliting the titles
Elective = the strongest vassal inherits

The first three can be either Salic or Semi-Salic
Semi-Salic = daughters cannot inherit, but their male descendants can. A younger son is still ranked before his older daughters' sons.
Salic = "le Lys ne file pas". A daughter's descendant can never inherit.

 

[Gnome]

If changing sucession laws are so rough, I'd say the best time to change it would be if you are a count, since you have no vassals...

Change it to what you want early. I'm assuming you keep your own "laws" with you if you gain other titles (Duke, King, etc) later on...

It depends. If you inherit another, more prestigious, realm you take on their inheritance rules.

For example, in my current game I started as Brittany, and while I only had two feeble little counts as vassals I changed my inheritence laws to salic consanguinity. A few assassinations later I inherited the Kingdom of England from my cousin Richard, who's offpsring had all died in unfortunate "accidents". Since a Kingdom obviously outranks a Duchy, my own salic consanguinity was replaced by the semi-salic primogeniture that held sway in England.

 

[unmerged(16438)]

If changing sucession laws are so rough, I'd say the best time to change it would be if you are a count, since you have no vassals...

Change it to what you want early. I'm assuming you keep your own "laws" with you if you gain other titles (Duke, King, etc) later on...

If you're a duke and you only have 1/2 vassals then it might be easier to just revoke their titles, change the law and then reappoint (better yet, why not give your titles to children if they don't already have them!). Bohemia is quite good for this, they only have three vassals which could easily be sorted, change the law and then reappoint - before upgrading to Kingdom!

 

[Nikolai]

Although the game itself is extremely good, the change of inheritance laws are done very poorly. I tried to do it with Norway; most of my vassals had a around +4-5 % change rate, everybody was 100 %, I change the laws, and five days later half of my realm is lost INCLUDING my large vassal of a son who infact gained the first place in the succession order...! It might have been hard to change laws, but this is just silly.

 

[unmerged(16438)]

Although the game itself is extremely good, the change of inheritance laws are done very poorly. I tried to do it with Norway; most of my vassals had a around +4-5 % change rate, everybody was 100 %, I change the laws, and five days later half of my realm is lost INCLUDING my large vassal of a son who infact gained the first place in the succession order...! It might have been hard to change laws, but this is just silly.

My only concern is that at the moment is seems like the law system can only be used a) right at the start of the scenario and b) if you're a count/vassal-less duke. I can't understand the rationale behind a game mechanic that's never used because it effectively costs you the game to do so.

 

[Grosshaus]

My only concern is that at the moment is seems like the law system can only be used a) right at the start of the scenario and b) if you're a count/vassal-less duke. I can't understand the rationale behind a game mechanic that's never used because it effectively costs you the game to do so.

I think it might have something to do with the way loyalty was supposed to work according to the manual: only below 10% loyalty would make it possible to declare independence. 10% is pretty easy to gain, with some prestige, no scutage and good diplomacy you can easily get +5 prestige montly so you'd only have few months to worry about revolts. This does not seem to be the case though.

 

[unmerged(485)]

Yes, changing inheritance laws should take into consideration where in the inheritance line your vassals stand as to what affect it has on their loyalty.

If you go from Salic-Primogeniture to Elective then only your oldest (living) son should really be upset. And even if some others are not pleased by it their loyalty should not drop more than about 50%.

It may have been done in order to prevent you from changing inheritance laws at your whim in order to accomodate your dynasty situation of the moment.

 

[Petrarca]

If you're a duke and you only have 1/2 vassals then it might be easier to just revoke their titles, change the law and then reappoint (better yet, why not give your titles to children if they don't already have them!). Bohemia is quite good for this, they only have three vassals which could easily be sorted, change the law and then reappoint - before upgrading to Kingdom!

As Bohemia, on hard/normal, I changed to salic consanguinity and had my vassal's loyalty plummet to zero. But no rebellions, interestingly, and fifteen years later the child prodigy (fifth son) was on the throne.

Edit: Of course, the Duke of Bohemia at the start can easily reach 18-20 in diplomacy, so that could have been a factor.

I inherited the Kingdom of England from my cousin Richard

Impressive!

 

[unmerged(20889)]

Another point......if inheritance laws only affect succession to the players demense, and not the lands of their vassals then surely those vassals with no family ties to the player shouldn't really care that much.

 

[unmerged(485)]

Another point......if inheritance laws only affect succession to the players demense, and not the lands of their vassals then surely those vassals with no family ties to the player shouldn't really care that much.

Unless the laws get changed from elective to one of the other forms. In which case they get left out of the possibility of inheriting.

 

[Machiavellian]

Are those all the forms of Inheritance in CK. Are their any inheritance laws by which the daughter could assume power?

 

[John Poole]

Are those all the forms of Inheritance in CK. Are their any inheritance laws by which the daughter could assume power?

Nope. Talk about a glass ceiling

 

[Finnish Dragon]

I think changing inheritance would have three possible effects on vassals:

If their position on inheritance rank improves they would be pleased and if their rank lowers they would be outraged. If a vassal doesn´t appear on inheritance list he wouldn´t have a direct effect. However there might be a secondary effect through family ties to other vassals but that effect would be slighter than primary effect.