Counterreformed
Techspeed penalty of -3
Seems reasonable
Stability bonus of 600
Could make it 1000 actually.
No effect on production
Ok
-10% trade income
Uh why? This should go..
No effect on taxation
Vast tracts of lands were owned by the church or religious orders and untaxable. -20% I say.
+50 morale
Sounds good.
2 extra colonists a year
Yep
2 extra diplomats a year
Good stuff
2 extra missionaries a year
alright.[/quote[Tax penalty should be the same as catholosism...the counterreform zeal wouldn't affect the this.
They should get 1 extra diplomat a year because they were more zealous in getting other non-CRC/Catholic states to conform to catholism, but only 1 extra as none of the christian religions i can see otherwise having a reason for extra diplomats.
Mad King James said:
Catholicism
Techspeed penalty of -1
Should be 0. Catholicism wasn't inherently uncreative.
Stability bonus of 600
good
No effect on production
ok
No effect on trade
ok
No effect on taxation
Should be -10%, for the tracts of land owned by the church and therefore untaxable.
No effect on morale
The Absolution should count for something IMHO. Perhaps +10?
2 extra colonists a year
ok
2 extra diplomats a year
ok
1 extra missionary a year
Ok
2 extra diplomats as they werre more politically active than protistan and reformed, but not so much as CRC because their zeal wasn't as much.
Mad King James said:
Orthodox
Techspeed penalty of -1
Ok
Stability bonus of 800
Good
No effect on production
Ok
No effect on trade
ok
No effect on taxation
Should actually be -10% as well, as with Catholicism the church owned much of the land.
No effect on morale
Orthodoxy should actually probably get a +20 bonus.
1 extra colonist a year
Seems reasonable.
no extra diplomats
Why not? I don't see why they shouldn't get 1 extra like the rest of Christianity.
1 extra missionary a year
Ok
Orthodox was more confusive than cathoscism to technology and should get no penalty or even +1.
I can't see the reason for the morale increase, but there is none for a penality either.
Diplomats they shouldn't get the same reason rest of christianity doesn't...there is no real reason.
Mad King James said:
Sunni islam:
Techspeed penalty of -1
Ok
Stability bonus of 600
Should be 1000
No effect on production
IMHO the decentralized nature of islam should be a problem for state production incomes. I'd say -20%
No effect on trade
The same problems were however a boon for trade, and throughout the period the most prolific traders were muslim. Here I'd say +20%
No effect on taxation
+20% for a variety of reasons. First of all is the Sunni custom of heavily taxing religious minorities as opposed to violence. Secondly is the large numbers of wealthy persecuted minorities because of this custom.
No effect on morale
Sunni Islam should have somewhat of a bonus, maybe +20
no extra colonists
ok
no extra diplomats
ok
1 extra missionary per year
Should be none. Most conversions to Islam were done by wandering Sufi mystics, not the state.
why the extra stability?
Also they should probably get slightly higher trade bonus +25% or +30%.
They should get 1 extra diplomat. Almost every Islamic nation had constant political dealings with other nations. At th least 1 extra every 2 years.
Mad King James said:
Shiite islam
Techspeed penalty of -3
ok
Stability bonus of 600
maybe lower this a bit, Shi'i was much more radical. 500?
No effect on production
like Sunni, this should be a problem. -20%
No effect on trade.
Again, like Sunni Islam, trade was often the lifeblood. +20
-20% tax income
Shiites should merely lack the benefits of the Sunni custom, not be penalized for it. I say no effect 0%.
+50 morale
Sounds good
no extra colonists
ok
no extra diplomats
ok
1 extra missionary per year
Here, for Shi'ites, I will agree, as Shi'i was far more prostheletizing. However they should have the same bonus as for Reformed, as it was more ad-hoc than official. 1 extra every 2 years.
Extra diplomat for the same reason as the Sunni.
Athough iif they were that much prosthetizing, they should get more missionaries than sunni so giving the sunni 1 every 2 years then should be done instead.
Mad King James said:
Paganism
Techspeed penalty of -25
I don't know about this... I mean paganism in and of itself isn't that uncondusive to enlightenment. How about -10 instead?
Stability penalty of -500
ok
No effect on production
should be -20, beyond taxation pagan governments had difficulty taxing trade or production.
No effect on trade
should be -20, beyond taxation pagan governments had difficulty taxing trade or production.
No effect on taxation
Pagans often had bigger problems with taxing the church than Catholics did, and even if no established church, paganism wasn't the most centralizing of faiths. There's a good reason many pagan kings converted to Christianity for the benefits to state powers. I say -20% or even -30%
No effect on morale
no extra colonists
no extra diplomats
no extra missionaries
all ok
Well -10 is a bit too little. it should be more of a penalty than confuscianism as confuscian countries, while rigid, did make some progress and changes and their more centralized nature would lead to them being able to impliment whatever they did easier.
Mad King James said:
Confucianism
Techspeed penalty of -10
Confucianism is quite rigid, I'll stick with it
Stability bonus of 1000
good stuff
No effect on production
The massive centralizing effects of a Confucian state should have a a small bonus, maybe +10%?
No effect on trade
Confucianism had incredible problems with trade actually, as tribute was the preferred means. I'd go so far as to give them -30 or -40
-20% tax income
Why? If anything, the central and supreme, and only, authority of the Confucian king is incredibly condusive to tax collection. I'd say +20.
No effect on morale
Should get a bit of a bonus really, as they are a Buddhist variant. +20?
no extra colonists
no extra diplomats
no extra missionaries
all ok
stability if we raise others to 1000 should be higher. Confuscianism is, if nothing else, known for stabuluty and order abover most everything else. So 1500 would be a good number.
For trade, while it is true, -30 is a bit much...-15 would be better imo, though -25 if you really think they were worse than pagans, which i don't believe so i'm sticking with -15. They did set up trade deals and whatnot and were atleast good at enforcing them for a while.
For taxing, you're right, but the confuscians, especially china were very beurocratic, but whatever, it could be argued either way.
Moral isn't right though as confuscianism isn't a budhism variant...it was devised as a philosophy long before budhism began. Neo-Confuscianism (which we have decided not to use it) is budhist influenced, but if we are going to base it off of neo-confuscianism, then beuond a name change will be a total revamp in the way of looking at confuscianism.
Also they should get extra diplomats, atleast 2. In state-to-state politics they were very active.
Mad King James said:
Buddhism
Techspeed penalty of -5
I suppose
Stability bonus of 500
ok
No effect on production
No effect on trade
both ok
-20% tax income
why? should be 0.
No effect on morale
Buddhists should have +70 morale actually. Buddhists were amongst the bravest warriors in the world.
no extra colonists
no extra diplomats
ok
1 extra missionary per year
should be one every 2 years, again because the conversions are more of an ad-hoc affair, as with reformed and shiite islam.
I don't know if they really should get a tech penalty, but not a bonus, just netural. While they didn't hearitly embrace technology, they didn't believe in supressing it.
Mad King James said:
Hinduism
Techspeed penalty of -10
I guess
Stability penalty of -300
er why? This should be 1000. Not much more rigid and watertight than Hindu caste-bound conformity.
No effect on production
No effect on trade
ok
+5% tax income
why is this here?
+50 morale
ok
no extra colonists
no extra diplomats
no extra missionaries
all ok
Techspeed porlly should be -5 as buddhism should be no techspeed modifier and hinduism isn't as opposed to technoliogy as hinduism, but its not really in favor of it either. As to the stability, whille what you say is true, caste conflicts were quite common.