unmerged(6159)

Field Marshal
Oct 23, 2001
9.458
0
Visit site
When you play OE you usually won't be a steamroller when you take out Austria. Persia is generally what puts me over the top. But it depends on how you do it, which monarchs, how much BB, how much inflation etc.
 

tatertot18

Second Lieutenant
77 Badges
Apr 26, 2003
159
0
Visit site
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Pride of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • 500k Club
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • BATTLETECH
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
I'm talking historically. Vienna was the high-point of Ottoman advance as I'm sure you all know. The loss of this city would have had lasting effects on Europe. Especially if it was lost during the first seige and not in 1683, by which time the Ottoman Empire was starting its decline.
 

Yakman

City of Washington, District of Columbia
26 Badges
Jan 5, 2004
6.266
6.078
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Deus Vult
  • For The Glory
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • 500k Club
The major problem with Sunni missionaries is that the two major sunni states of the day [meaning the ones we should really focus on], the Ottomans and the Mughals, didn't convert their subjects. The Ottomans were content governing a polyglot Empire, and the Mughal court was full of Hindus. If either empire decides to go narrowminded and start converting, that's fine by me. But they shouldn't just receive free missionaries.
 

doktarr

Wet Blanket
16 Badges
Aug 3, 2003
2.071
33
Visit site
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
tatertot18 said:
I'm not suggesting free missonaries. I'm suggesting events triggered by conquests that allow the option of converting but at stability/money/revolt hits.
There is no justification for giving the Turks a bunch of events to do something ahistorical that they can do on their own using the regular game engine. Furthermore, as you're probably aware, stabhits and revoltrisk are minor penalties compared to the benefit of free conversions for wrong-culture provinces.
 

unmerged(2456)

Pure Evil Genius
Mar 29, 2001
11.211
0
www.hero6.com
Yakman said:
The major problem with Sunni missionaries is that the two major sunni states of the day [meaning the ones we should really focus on], the Ottomans and the Mughals, didn't convert their subjects. The Ottomans were content governing a polyglot Empire, and the Mughal court was full of Hindus. If either empire decides to go narrowminded and start converting, that's fine by me. But they shouldn't just receive free missionaries.
It depends for the Mughuls upon which era you're talking about.
 

unmerged(2456)

Pure Evil Genius
Mar 29, 2001
11.211
0
www.hero6.com
tatertot18 said:
But allowing Burgundy to become France, even though it never historically happened is okay?
This has to do with this discussion how?
 

doktarr

Wet Blanket
16 Badges
Aug 3, 2003
2.071
33
Visit site
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
doktarr said:
There is no justification for giving the Turks a bunch of events to do something ahistorical that they can do on their own using the regular game engine. Furthermore, as you're probably aware, stabhits and revoltrisk are minor penalties compared to the benefit of free conversions for wrong-culture provinces.
tatertot18 said:
But allowing Burgundy to become France, even though it never historically happened is okay?
Wohoo! I love the list html feature:
  1. Since Burgundy cannot become France using the normal game engine, the analogy does not apply.
  2. Burgundy had some claims on the French throne, so there's some historical precedent for this event.
  3. Why write events like this for the Ottomans? They were never agressive about converting their subjects.
  4. If the rationale is more cultural absorbtion, then why stop at the Ottomans? The Habsburgs effectively ruled the Hungarians and Czechs; who's to say they would have had trouble with Italians or Serbs if things had gone differently? Russia absorbed, and converted, Tartars and Buriats - why not Turks or Poles or Lithuanians?
Again, if things proceed ahistorically, then what you're asking for can be accomplished through the game engine.

If you really want to press this subject, then you should probably open a new thread, as we're way off topic.
 

chegitz guevara

Lord of the Horizons
60 Badges
May 14, 2001
3.297
91
www.absynthe.biz
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
tatertot18 said:
I suppose the specific threads on the OE are more in order? Do you know offhand if this has been discussed at all there?

Yes, but only for a specific historical event, where Selim I considered converting the Christians of Anatolia by force. We're not about to create events that have no basis in history. If you want to convert the Balkans, go max narrowminded, you get random free conversions when you're extremely narrowminded (but you also get random religious revolts as well), on top of the missionaries you receive.
 

unmerged(6159)

Field Marshal
Oct 23, 2001
9.458
0
Visit site
I don't object to events for what happens after the conquest of Vienna in principal. I do object to events that hand out huge advantages for very little cost.

For example I think an interesting choice, upon the fall of Vienna, would be for Sulieman to abandon the mantle of the Byzantines and choose instead the mantle of Charlemagne. The Ottomans could lose Arab, Greek and Slavonic cultures, and gain German. They could lose all cores in non-turkish cultrued provinces, and suffer a large revolr risk for 5 years. The capital would move to Vienna where there woudl be a new COT.

That would be interesting, and present real challenges to the Ottomans.
 

Yakman

City of Washington, District of Columbia
26 Badges
Jan 5, 2004
6.266
6.078
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Deus Vult
  • For The Glory
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • 500k Club
Isaac Brock said:
I don't object to events for what happens after the conquest of Vienna in principal. I do object to events that hand out huge advantages for very little cost.

For example I think an interesting choice, upon the fall of Vienna, would be for Sulieman to abandon the mantle of the Byzantines and choose instead the mantle of Charlemagne. The Ottomans could lose Arab, Greek and Slavonic cultures, and gain German. They could lose all cores in non-turkish cultrued provinces, and suffer a large revolr risk for 5 years. The capital would move to Vienna where there woudl be a new COT.

That would be interesting, and present real challenges to the Ottomans.
That should be a "fantasy" series of events.
 
Feb 12, 2004
4.656
0
Just a thougth I had, lately. I was planning to go with a rather innovative Aragon. I could possibly become Spain, but I had decided to turn to lutherianism or calvinism. I planned to make the Pope miserable, turning against him everytime possible.

Part of that opposition was to be the most tolerant possible, especially towards those supposedly heretic doctrines proclaimed by a particular german monk. Thus, I was planning my DP moves, when I remembered something : missionaries. If I was to turn against the Pope, I would not allow the Inquisition in my country. This would increase my INNOVATIVENESS. Then, I'd get few missionaries, if any, as I was planning to become the beacon of protestantism and tolerance.

So, I have a problem. Protestantism was ruthlessly repressed in Iberia and Italy, through the Inquisition and the state. But if I choose to become tolerant, and to turn to protestantism, it doesn't help protestantism either.

Yet, it doesn't feel right to give more missionaries to protestant and reformed countries. So...
The northern areas were much more tolerant to the new religious ideas, hence the greatest spread of protestantism. Yet, what their tolerance achieved, other catholic countries can't.

I thought of a few possibilities.
  1. Random events for innovative protestants, giving more free conversions
  2. Put a few protestant and/or reformed provinces in Iberia

If you have ideas...
 

unmerged(34273)

First Lieutenant
Sep 13, 2004
289
0
+10% bonus to production efficiency
Why is this here? How is being protestant lead to an increase in production efficiency? I suppose the increase in state centralization by the religion... In that case understandable.


Well reccon it has to du with the idea that the lutheran ideal of working hard never relaxing in you whole live which some historians ( not all for sure) belive is one of the reasons that northern europe grew faster then southern europe in the modern age. Im not that convinced its true. However itts no doubt that there were a very rigid never depend on anyone not even your family work hard to make your own fortune ideal. If it effected production remains to be proven
 

ConjurerDragon

Generalissimus
63 Badges
Apr 19, 2005
5.282
476
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • The Kings Crusade
  • Magicka
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Sengoku
  • Ship Simulator Extremes
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Impire
  • Victoria 2
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • War of the Roses
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Pride of Nations
  • Rise of Prussia
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • East India Company Collection
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • Hearts of Iron III
In my current game as the Ottoman Empire I conquered several provinces in central europe and converted them to sunni islam.

However when the reformation started it not only turned several catholic provinces to protestant and later to reformed - it also converted e.g. Schwyz from sunni to reformed.

Is that intened?

Or should the general reformation events only convert provinces religion if that religion is the starting religion it historically had?
 

ConjurerDragon

Generalissimus
63 Badges
Apr 19, 2005
5.282
476
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • The Kings Crusade
  • Magicka
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Sengoku
  • Ship Simulator Extremes
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Impire
  • Victoria 2
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • War of the Roses
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Pride of Nations
  • Rise of Prussia
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • East India Company Collection
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • Hearts of Iron III
Yes, it probably would be worthwhile to add a trigger that the provinces have to be either catholic (in the case of the protestant reformation) or catholic/protestant (when the calvinist reformation starts up). Good call. :)

I noticed that this change seems to have been implemented in FtG - at least none of my european sunni provinces has changed to protestant or reformed in the next hundred years of game time :)

Discussion about religion in the game for the next version of AGCEEP (for FtG) continues here:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...bonuses-and-penalties&p=12783274#post12783274