I wish they'd buff eastern religion missionary strength. I don't want to have to take Humanist every time simply because I don't get the same bonuses that Christianity/Islam do.
Changes to Ideas Groups in new DLC
- Thread starter saegoto
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It's not that bad because there are a few other sources of recruitment time modifiers that allow you to stack enough to get recruitment times down to 1 day, allowing you to spam new armies incredibly fast. It's way more useful than you think.
Was super easy to get Prussia's recruitment to 1 day before they said "Oh, ummm, oops" and nerfed it.
What "other sources of recrutment time modifiers" you have in mind? I never bothered with it but maybe it was a mistake - total mobilisation in 1 week seems useful.
Humanist will need some nerfing I imagine, it seems super strong. I am SO glad they put naval in the military, but at the same time I feel like there isn't much for diplomatic idea if you are not a trade/colonizer but influence is a nice bonus.
I don't like these. Influence gives no diplomat. Meaning that you will have to get Diplomacy first anyway. So what its niche? the second idea you pick for when you play HRE? Did that game are of the game needed.
I hate how this supposedly conceptual differences are forced on us. Naval/Maritime? What's the difference? Influence/Diplomacy? I either have a navy or I don't. I either use my diplomats for influence or I don't. This is just lazy af. Come up with better ideas please. Idea groups should get smaller and unique, not silly trains of random/similar numbers.
I hate how this supposedly conceptual differences are forced on us. Naval/Maritime? What's the difference? Influence/Diplomacy? I either have a navy or I don't. I either use my diplomats for influence or I don't. This is just lazy af. Come up with better ideas please. Idea groups should get smaller and unique, not silly trains of random/similar numbers.
"+X Subject Forcelimits" makes it sound like it is increasing the forcelimits of your subject nations. It could use a better name maybe.
Eh I don't think Humanism is as overpowered as people are saying, I think it's just fine where it is(though the revolt risk idea could be knocked down a peg). If anything the other admin ideas should be buffed, since admin ideas feel like they're the weakest and most expensive. That and missionaries should probably be buffed a bit.
Depending on playstyle, 2 diplomats can be enough. Then if you're rich, 3rd diplomat from embassy is fine unless you go on diploannexing multiple hudge vassals in the mean time, while improving relations with newly formed PU... Last is that you can already get diplomats from 2 other idea groups; attaching a diplomat to every diplo group would be a terrible idea. I can see myself picking Influence really, though the -10% tech cost of diplomacy will make it look much more valuable than it used to be to me.
Then I disagree about "having a navy or not". You always have an army; does it means you always pick all the military idea groups? One of two groups is for a strong navy in war; the other one is more trade oriented.
Otherwise, I recon that I miss that there are so few unique idea bonuses, as the religious idea group CB, or the shorter nationalism period of humanism.
Its pretty clear that the ideal order of ideas is Humanism, Administrative, Influence, Innovative. This combinations is unbelievably powerful. Diplomatic is useless since dip tech cost reduction is meaningless and by then an extra diplomat isn't worth it. Well to be fair this combo is the ideal for large nations not all nations.
That is the definite order I'll be using for my Burgundy game after the DLC hits. I would probably use that for Poland and Denmark, too.
That is the definite order I'll be using for my Burgundy game after the DLC hits. I would probably use that for Poland and Denmark, too.
I'd say that its usefulness depends on play-style: if you like fast expansions, this is a godsend. Otherwise, it is far less useful(as it tends to be more useful to have a homogenic country)
Still, I love it because the Religious Idea Group will not have the Ecumenism Idea which is... unfitting and sometimes the opposite of useful.
Humanism is by far the most overpowered Idea Group in the game. If you take it first you save a whopping 1660 points on ideas which can add together with Protestant for 3320 or even with like, Milan is it?, for 3980 extra MP over the course of the game. It also has 5 ideas that reduce revolt risk issues, -2RR, religious unit for cheaper stability as well as directly less RR and then -3 across the board for the two tolerance ideas and then -2 revolt risk from provinces that before would not have been able to become an accepted culture but now can do so. Revolt risk reduction also improves the economy and speeds up unit training, making it both an economic and military idea group.
Please don't tell developers because they will be jerks and nerf the ideas hard.
I think Humasim is very good, even the best adm ideas group for signle player when you want to build global empire, counquer whole Europe etc. In multiplayer is not so great. Admnistrative and Innovative are still much better.
Influence is also for single player. I don't see anything special for this idea. Maybe it just doesn't fit to my play style. I wonder if Subecjt Forcelimit idea works with Colonial Nation and Trade Companies or only vassals?
I think Quantity now is best ideas group to pick as first military idea group. Manpower bonus and much more - cheaper army, buildings, more navy and troops makes this idea very, very useful in early game, since offensive lost MP bonus.
Influence is also for single player. I don't see anything special for this idea. Maybe it just doesn't fit to my play style. I wonder if Subecjt Forcelimit idea works with Colonial Nation and Trade Companies or only vassals?
I think Quantity now is best ideas group to pick as first military idea group. Manpower bonus and much more - cheaper army, buildings, more navy and troops makes this idea very, very useful in early game, since offensive lost MP bonus.
I'm not sure where you got the 1660 points from. It's not even divisible by 40. Best case, you'll save 1960 monarch points, but that's only if you take it first, which will either limit your admin tech, or your coring. It's still inferior to 5% tech cost reductions, and you don't see people screaming about how overpowered those are. The reduced revolt risk is good up to a point. Having excess revolt risk reduction doesn't improve anything, so you're really overestimating the value of those ideas. Reducing national revolt risk is something all countries can easily do with inquisitors, or by increasing stability. Sure, the idea group looks strong, but it's not like it's much more powerful than some of the other ideas out there.
I meant 1960 and after I mistyped it the first time I probably just copied that. Only makes it better. Also you forget that every idea you take in a group is worth a tech cost reduction. Take Humanism first, then Administrative. You now have a 10+14+14% reduction in admin costs, cheaper idea costs in general, and another 14% when you take Innovative. 57% reduction in over 22 Admin ideas if you count Innovative bonus. Then you have Universities and since you always finish idea groups before you take the next idea you get a good neighbor bonus for another 5% average, from either 4 or 6. Sure in multiplayer you'll get massacred, but for Ironman, its incredible. If you could the random bonuses, you essentially get 70% off of 22 admin ideas which is 9240 admin points on tech, plus the idea cost for 3920 total points saved, including at least 3 full admin idea groups if not more, when you add expansion for core costs. Imagine stacking that with 10% off ideas or tech from national ideas. Meanwhile you save that extra 40% on cores, or again, more if you have a core cost bonus.
This stacks incredibly with Burgundy because Administrative and Innovative give it incredible boosts to mercenaries and the reductions to war exhaustion stacking with mercs. The only real issue to work on is where to take influence for the reduction to diplo annexing, claim fabrication and aggressive expansion. Should it be the fourth idea before expansion? Should it go before innovative as well? Hard to say. I actually think I would. You start being able to vassalize larger nations around adm tech 10.
I don't think its fair to use the tech bonus for acquiring ideas to compare different idea groups, since every single idea will give you a tech bonus, regardless. There's no opportunity cost there.
I'm not sure what you're going at with the reduced admin tech cost, as the same is already possible with military tech in aristocracy. Military tech is arguably the most important tech, and nobody's complaining about it being imbalanced.
Also, with all those tech reductions there is no way you can consistently get a 5% neighbor bonus, since you'll be constantly reaching your points limit, and without insane income, you're going to be forced to spend those points in tech. So neighbor bonuses shouldn't even be considered as a reliable factor.
Lastly, the tech reduction from ideas is offset somewhat by the increase over time.
Because you don't NEED mil tech cost reductions. What are you going to do? Excessively harsh treatment stuff?