Changes in economic system in HOI 3 possible???

[dilk]

Hi folks,

after reading in the forum many times, I had some thoughts about the economical system of the game.

I would say it might be a bit unrealistic, how economy is handled. So it is possible to the one day all your IC for producing consumer goods, the next day you take for building some battleships and another day you switch all your production into supplies.
What would you think, if HOI 3 had a system of economic more likley the one in Victoria? So if you want to have tanks, you need tank factories and if you want to have battleshipes, you have to build enough shipyards.
In many posts it was said, that HOI is a strategy game. So a system like this fits better to that thinking because You have to decide very early in the game the way youwant to go.

What do you think?

 

[him_15]

I would agree the econ system in HOI2 is far too simple, but since HOI is a grand battle strategy game, it's supposed to focus on the military part. Also, if the econ system is over enhanced that would be too much work for a player.

 

[BigPoppa1111]

Hi folks,

after reading in the forum many times, I had some thoughts about the economical system of the game.

I would say it might be a bit unrealistic, how economy is handled. So it is possible to the one day all your IC for producing consumer goods, the next day you take for building some battleships and another day you switch all your production into supplies.
What would you think, if HOI 3 had a system of economic more likley the one in Victoria? So if you want to have tanks, you need tank factories and if you want to have battleshipes, you have to build enough shipyards.
In many posts it was said, that HOI is a strategy game. So a system like this fits better to that thinking because You have to decide very early in the game the way youwant to go.

What do you think?

HOI2 is a wargame. Its not really a "grand strategy" game in the sense of Vicky or EU. The economics have been simplified to allow for the ease and fun of playing. Making it more complicated would just detract from the challenge of managing armies attacking different places. Constructing facilities to build ships or other items would take years of game time. I don't think it would add any value to the game and to that end would not be a good use of the players time to manage that.

 

[coreymas]

There has yet to be any indication from Paradox that there even will be an HOI3......

I for one certainly hope so.

Corey

 

[Door Number 3]

There has yet to be any indication from Paradox that there even will be an HOI3......

I for one certainly hope so.

Corey

Me too but not for a few more years.

 

[FelisSilvestris]

Hm, which of PI's game was the most successful one? Thought Hoi2/DD was doing rather well. Their (combined) forums are second only to EUII in terms of posts, if that might server an indicator.
Continuing successful series with a new engine would make sense to me.

 

[coreymas]

I think that Paradox will consider a new game engine for any future release of HOI.

They did with EU3 and it looks as if it is going to pay off for them handsomely.

It would be nice to have a much more fluid (read no provinces but free flowing movement) but that is going to take a radically new engine than what HOI2 has.

Also a much more detailed economic model would be interesting if we also had a much more detailed unit design system (read user defined TO&E's)

But that is my fantasy....

Corey

 

[unmerged(41121)]

Personally I tink the economics is good enough for a strategic war game. The Province Map is not to bad either, as otherwise one would really have to think of a way to keep things manageable (and that not jost for the pro gamers)

What I really think is needed for HoI 3 is a completely new event language that allows some basic checks and branching. (Nothing to fancy, everything should terminate within a reasonable time) that way there could be one surrender event for a country (maybe two if the country is as large as USSR) which checks who actually invaded the country and holds the provinces. (See discussion about Bitter Peace in "Germany takes all")

Furtermore the general AI (not the level of scripting for the majors) should be improved. (Although I know that this is really diffcullt, having heard lectures on AI)

And as a side note, user defineable reagions for air combat (or al least allowing it to narrow a mission - especially ground attack ones - down to one province if wanted) are really needed for gameplay reasons. It is simply annoying not to be at all able to destroy a size 10 airport, because your tacs always strike the undefended size 0.00/1.00 airoprt in the province next door.

 

[unorthodoxt]

but free flowing movement) but that is going to take a radically new engine than what HOI2 has.

I think it would be nice but it is not a good fit for this style of game. Fluid movement is much better for a game such as Starcraft and the like. At least in my opinion it is.

 

[Bullfrog]

I think the in depth economic system killed Victoria. I had HOI (1) before any other Paradox game so maybe that spoiled me... The HOI2 system is great for what it simulates, also too simplistic, but as far as an economic system like Vicky, no thanks. Most of that game's play is sitting around waiting for your economy to come out of the red, and playing the countries in GC that are not world powers might as well be playing Luxembourg in HOI2. Anyway, the game could implement shipyards, to limit shipbuilding and so forth, but all these things are essentially simulated in HOI2's grand economic system. Factories have the queue bonus for serial runs implying that using IC for supplies one day and building a battleship the next comes at a small price.
IC is somewhat abstract and unrealistic but if it were changed to Vicky style the game would be less popular to the new customers that HOI enjoys much more so than Vicky.

 

[Waffen9999]

If they ever make an HOI3 more resources in more areas. I refuse to believe that with that many provinces at least 50% generate nothing, even in Africa. It's crazy, that or give us the option to increase resource production. Another thing, fix the supply of oil in Asia. The Phillipines and the Dutch East Indies contained them >cough Davao cough Balikpapan cough< and other places. Aside from that, can't think of much, aside from maybe more minister positions/different types of ministers. I really liked that aspect.

 

[unmerged(54240)]

Don't we already do enough mouse jobs already? The new spy feature was a mistake IMO.

 

[Ironhead 5]

I think that Paradox will consider a new game engine for any future release of HOI.

They did with EU3 and it looks as if it is going to pay off for them handsomely.

It probably will pay off handsomely for them, but may not necessarily be attributable entirely to a new game engine. Admit it, Paradox could poop in a box and write EUIII across the front and it would still pay off handsomely for them.

I think one nice upgrade for HoI3 would be to add more provinces in some of the hinterlands, such as Siberia and Africa. In Europe, the provinces are small enough to do encirclements; in the more sparse areas, if you are doing encircelements your army is basically racing thousands of kilometers around a pocket the size of minor nation. (admittedly, not too many encirclement possibilities in Africa, but in Siberia, post-Bitter Peace...)

 

[dilk]

@ ugly guy

It also now takes years if you want to expand your industry.


@Bullfrog

I hadn`t thought about to copy the econ system of Victoria but about taking parts of it.

 

[BigPoppa1111]

@ ugly guy

It also now takes years if you want to expand your industry.

Quite true. But these are multi-purpose industries that I can use for anything. If I had to waste years of game time and countless IC upgrading my "naval ship yards" just to be able to produce carriers, I would be pretty unhappy. If you wanted to tweak the game, maybe it would be better to tie the production of certain units to the total IC value of a country. I mean honestly, Albania didn't build carriers for a reason.

 

[Bullfrog]

@ ugly guy

It also now takes years if you want to expand your industry.

Hasn't it always taken years?

@Bullfrog

I hadn`t thought about to copy the econ system of Victoria but about taking parts of it.

Some parts such as more resources to obtain for specific productions like ships or aircraft (engines, weapons, specific metal alloys) might be OK but the game has enough to do at one time already, especially on a two front war that too much Vicky like economics would hurt gameplay.

 

[blue emu]

... Admit it, Paradox could poop in a box and write EUIII across the front and it would still pay off handsomely for them...

Ssssshhh... don't give them any ideas...

 

[Bullfrog]

Ssssshhh... don't give them any ideas...

touche

 

[Moltke]

I hope in any future incarnations of HoI that infrastructure plays a larger role as it did in the real war. Particularly railways and marshalling yards, but also highways for troop movements. The level of a nations infrastructure should link with its production capacity, not in some weird abstraction where it only affects rebuilding times.

 

[noobermenschen]

Paradox could poop in a box and write EUIII across the front and it would still pay off handsomely for them...)

You are way behind the marketing curve. That was done years ago with Windows ME.

There is a thread running in OT where someone suggested HOI3 take over from Vicki and run from 1913-1953, which sounded reeeally cool. The combat models could probably be solved by greatly decreasing the toughness of 1912/14/16 INF and CAV divisions, which IIRC would greatly decrease their attacking power. The problem would be the economic model, which would have to take into account depressions, hyperinflation and revolution. You would need a serious engine to run this properly as well as combat as well as 40 years of random and historical events.