[challenge] (harder than you think) Burgundy / Hard / AI Bonuses / No Allies

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halby

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Definitions:

1) hard difficulty means taking a single province out of the HRE gives you about 50 AE (less if you get a claim and use proper cb), and it means if your AE ever goes over 30, people will coalition against you. it also means that all of your neighbors will attack you if you are ever losing a war.

2) ai bonuses means ai nations get less ai, fewer revolts, higher force limits, cheaper troops, faster manpower recovery, more manpower, more money, more monarch points, etc... so tactics like 'support rebels' are completely useless, and if you fight a nation to a draw, then wait 10 years and fight again, they'll have roughly 2x your troops in the second fight. single province minors have 10+ troops (instead of 4 on normal difficulty) it's a big deal.



You can't ally anyone except the pope, and yes, that means no diplomatic vassalization. Just for context I have over 1700 hours of eu4 played, i'm not a noob, and this is hard.


I find this incredibly hard, because you can only expand by direct conquest of provinces, but you can only take 1 province per 10 years or you die to a coalition, and you are surrounded by the biggest strongest nations in the world, many of whom rival you.

The key is to stay ahead on military tech (no allies and all) and use a lot of mercenaries (burgundies strong suit)... I've been running +3 mil advisor, and using 'humiliate' wars to keep power projection above 50... took quantity as first idea and make all the buildings (since you won't be expanding much, improving your provinces is a big deal).

Also: enforce peace against france often, to keep your truce timer going, because there aint no way you are winning vs france with ai bonuses set (they have 80k troops and tons of manpower from day 1, and you start with 35 force limits)



why: I like playing large nations, but I also like a challenge. I wish there was a mod that disabled 'alliance' option from diplomacy but only for the player.

(these are just the games that were memorable)

1) took 2 provinces off of england, died immediately to france.

2) took bar from provence, died immediately to france.

3) took bar + 2 provinces from england, went to 80/33 force limits to deter france from attacking me... didn't work, they used milan + savoy + switzerland + france and killed me

4) took gelre while austria was fighting ottomans, died to france.

5) decided truce with france is needed before doing anything else, so i just maxed on light ships, moved capital to holand (removed all lands from hre), and built all trade/production/temple/armory buildings on all provinces, keeping manpower maxed and slowly upping army size... france attacked when i was at 60 troops and 34k manpower, i killed them, and full sieged getting 100 warscore, but 3k in loans and 14 war exaustion... i demanded 3 provinces which I had claims on, and released some nations to hurt france... i had not yet recovered from loans/exaustion when truce expired and france killed me easily

6) same tactic: get truce with france... This time I enforced vs provence, lost the war, but france didn't take anything from me. So I took cores back from empire/england, humiliating austria for the power projection. truce was almost up with france, but they got pulled into a war against serbia, and i enforced peace to reset the truce timer, lost that war too, but no loans, and didn't lose territory. I beat up austria a second time, for more power projection, then fought france for real (they attacked me to reclaim their core in picardi) I got 40 warscore just from winning defensive battles in the forest, and not letting them siege war goal, and used that warscore to humiliate them. took sundgaiu from austria and released tirol. (up 3 provinces, not dead, superman!)... england, france both attack me, and i'm dead. france won't take peace for less than 8 provinces... boo.

7) same opening, remove from HRE, move capital, max trade ships, get armories and trade buildings all over, start quantity idea... france attacks me about 10 months before i'm going to finish the military tech that gives me men at arms, so I gain military access thru the HRE, and hide my armies. Once Men at Arms are trained, i come back, and defend the burgundian forests, an event fires (because I chose quantity) that gives me +10 discipline!!!! that's insane! that's like a 40% advantage. I win tons of 30 vs 50 style fights even though my general is 0:2 and france has a 5:5 general. I rip france to shreds, demand that they release guyenne (100 war score) and attack austria (because the +10 discipline event will end soon) I release styria from austria (100 war score) and now my 2 primary rivals are crippled do a dance... The discipline event ends, and england + portugal + aragon attack me, and i die. nice.

8) same opening, get rich, make buildings, keep army as small as possible without letting manpower max to bait france into hitting me, then hide in HRE while i wait to out-tech them, then defend forest... I beat france again, even without the + discipline event... seems we've found a reliable way to beat france in 1 war anyway. :) This time I just take a humiliate victory for the power projection, because out-teching them is key and PP = tech and CASH... I get calais from england, and gelre from austria, then enforce peace to protect provence, losing that war but resetting truce vs france... I vassalized aachen, and lorain, made them both marches, waited til the coalition (austria and savoy) died down, then got 80/60 army size and max manpower, then waited for france to attack someone... they hit england, so i attacked them, then castile joined in, and we destroyed frances boobs, they lost 3 provinces to england, 2 to castile, and 3 to me... (3 provinces with a conquest cb that i had claims on = 60 AE with rivals) so a huge coalition of england, austria, and france formed against me... my constant diplomat usage kept everyone else out, but those 3 + scandinavia (allied to england) attacked me... 300k troops vs my 110k (way over my now 90 force limits...) they won a bunch of battles and got to +40 war score. Finally,though, I picked off enough armies that i was able to crush their doom stack, now widdled to 90k... with 0 manpower and -3000$ in loans, I fought them to 40 war score and took the last 2 provinces in my primary trade node. (fast forward to 1600, netherland revolts, protestant reformation, several coalition wars... still havin a blast. My armies are starting to win 2:1 ratio with 0 manpower loss, because my infantry are all mercenaries... Keeping army tradition and prestige maxed at 100, and going reformed for 'war' fervor, plus being protector of the reformed faith, and the +morale from defensive idea, and +discipline advisor, and +discipline from burgundian national ideas.... all adds up to some serious carnage) That's my current game. yaay.



Attrition + Supply Chains:
The key to beating large armies (300k vs my 100) seems to rely on +fort defense and +attrition from defensive idea, prestige, and high forts... once everyone gets a bunch of war exaustion from attrition, the more distant enemies start retreating, and it's a lot easier. (the supply chain for denmark, portugal, and poland is so long that they don't reinforce automatically, so any losses they suffer are permanent).
 
Last edited:

unmerged(782952)

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This is a challenge too big for me, but if I was brave enough, my strategy would be to restart until I could beat and fully occupy France and its vassals with 1 infantry on each province (perma-loot). From there, with the limited forces I have left, I would attack nations already at war against Austria, improve relations with Aragon, Castile, England, Denmark, The Hansa, Portugal and Sweden and take only 1 province at the time.
 

aqvamare

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The trick is to get a powerbase in a different relegion/culture/contiente. Do a day one dow without claim on algier or horde for example...annex it, core it. Than expand there until you could double your Landarmyforcelimit...do colo game as first idea (africa) to even increase your LF in the first 50 years.

After the first 50years, you should have catch up close enought to the big nations (80 france, 75 austria, 70 castille...etc) with circa 55-60...now you can switch to normal expansion game...when you are sure you can win against your neighbours.
 

Artyom87

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I played only 2 games on non Ironman/hard/ ai bonus, but I do only choose the more powerful nations

with burgundy, you ally castille and aragon (although I dont think aragon will join war) and declare war on france maybe a year or two after game starts and just use alot of merceneries. French manpower should deplete. This worked for me on my first try. And dont take more than 1 province because you dont want coalitions because thats what happened to me. Its something about burgundy and everyone despising you for any agression.

Also, the toughest part was I had TWO peasant revolts within like 20 years which was actually the toughest part to deal with

If you max out the administration tree and also get the burgundian unique merc traits it should become a monster unlike any france you'd see.

Also, regarding the AE on hard, you dont have to wait for coalitions to drop.

Like say you play bavaria, so what you do is ally with the biggest guys in town which are austria/bohemia and maybe poland and then you conquer the OPM's and all your AE will go towards those OPM's which doesnt matter. It even makes things easier in a way because if you declare on one coalition member, you can take the lands of any coalition member you want when you win the war.

In the said bavaria game I had all of austria+croatia+20 or so german provinces by like 1520. The AE was over 500 for some OPM's. And a little later I did lose the game because I didnt check to see if the big boys like burgundy/venice/spain/denmark were getting any significant AE from my conquests and they were actually

Playing with brnadenburg is a bit easier in this sense because you dont have as many neighbours being mad at you because you have nobody to the north (denmark doesnt seem to care as much as german minors when you take OPM's).
SO what you do is ally poland and bohemia and austria and go to town with every german country, but trying to maintain the AE only to yor close neighbours.

thats what AI hard/bonus is all about, its not what you can do, its what your friends can do
 

halby

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The trick is to get a powerbase in a different relegion/culture/contiente.

Unfortunately, no matter how hard I try, I've never been able to go un-attacked by france for longer than 2 years... so sending my army off somewhere else wouldn't work... That isn't to say I couldn't defend vs france, THEN focus on another continent... but as soon as truce timer expires france attacks again, so i'd have to be quick... I haven't tried it, sounds like something to try.
 

RobRoy3

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I really like no allies games, too. It's a great house rule that can make most of the majors entertaining, again, especially on harder difficulty settings.

Plus, when you think about it, allies really are much more of an "exploit" than most of the others that they nerf. Not that I think they should be nerfing them, but think about how many strategy guides start with something like: 1) Improve relations so you can ally FRA/HAB/POL/etc.
 

dirtInfestor2

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This is the most unfun sounding challenge i have ever seen. Why would you play like this - only taking 1 province every 10 years and even then you get a coalition...it doesnt even seem like there would be good options to counterplay coalitions on hard difficulty.
 

Ilightmaster

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Warn your neighbours
Take calais and release what's left of normandie
Take orientale Friesland
Move capitale
Take Defense and nationale focus on military
Do a lot of HRE wars but never take any land
Pawn France whenever he goes at war ( with a fat nation)
Improve austria relationship and remove HRE provinces one by one
And attack those at wars with france when you think there gonna lose the fight
 

birincikalite

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I really like no allies games, too. It's a great house rule that can make most of the majors entertaining, again, especially on harder difficulty settings.

Plus, when you think about it, allies really are much more of an "exploit" than most of the others that they nerf. Not that I think they should be nerfing them, but think about how many strategy guides start with something like: 1) Improve relations so you can ally FRA/HAB/POL/etc.
Eheh reminds me of the common Brandenburg start. You got no army? Np! Ally BOH/POL/HAB then dow Teutons. Easy right?
 

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Warn your neighbours
Take calais and release what's left of normandie
Take orientale Friesland
Move capitale
Take Defense and nationale focus on military
Do a lot of HRE wars but never take any land
Pawn France whenever he goes at war ( with a fat nation)
Improve austria relationship and remove HRE provinces one by one
And attack those at wars with france when you think there gonna lose the fight
Have you read anything the topic starter has said?

I doubt your guide applies :)
 

halby

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This is unfun, 1 province every 10 years and coalitions.

It's the only way to make playing powerful nations challenging... I just beat back scandinavia, england, france, and austria all at once in a single war, and as a reward, i only get 2 provinces, meaning when truce timer is up i'll be doing it again :p

HARD stuff! but not impossible.

Don't get me wrong, blobbing is fun too, at 1700+ hours played i've done many things and many of them were fun, this is just another alternative.
 

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  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
can i do royal marriages? :)
 

bbqftw

banana vendor for unhuman entities
2 Badges
Jan 18, 2014
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6.187
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
This is the most unfun sounding challenge i have ever seen. Why would you play like this - only taking 1 province every 10 years and even then you get a coalition...it doesnt even seem like there would be good options to counterplay coalitions on hard difficulty.
otherwise the challenge in playing the nation ends at the ~20 year mark

this challenge seems like a way to ensure you're existentially threatened for a very long time.