Challenge game: (12)Fullfill the conditions of the "around the world in 80 years achievement

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alexti

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So the strategy is:
  1. two blob like crazy with loans
  2. lose a war to reduce your interest
  3. start paying back your loans
  4. wait for 15 years
  5. reconquest lost provinces
  6. pay more loans back
Sort of... In practice, it's usually a bit different. For the start even with loans it's hard to blob like crazy on VH, so you blob only moderately. When you get large enough to lose few provinces (which likely have brewing rebellion), you lose the war to some minor and give them those provinces (need to reduce LA before starting the war though). Usually you can get something 50% revanchism at that point. This still allows you to refinance with cheaper loans and benefit from more taxes and unrest reduction. Then you continue to blob and lose some of the newly conquered land in another war. Basically you don't want to wait 15 years. Often, the minor who won the first war against isn't able to keep the land (due to rebels or due to being attacked by someone else), so it's hard to know who you will be taking the land back from. One consideration is that AI may often raise LA (and if the provinces change hands few times it can get to 100%). So your choice is either keep trading this land for revanchism (reduce LA before losing it again), or try to hold on to it after the reconquest. In the latter case you don't have separatism and you've managed to handle the situation right you'll even have fairly low LA. Typically, if you are planning for the latter you want to try to lose the war to someone with religion and culture matching the land you are giving away (if that land is in their states, even better). In real games it's hard to predict how AI will act and what's going to happen, so usually you'll have a bit of both scenarios.

At this stage you aren't in position to repay loans yet, you are just trying to reduce interest payments (or loan more without increasing the interest payments).

How long does revanchism last? 20 years? Is there a way to see, when revanchism times out? I didn't see anything in the goverment tab, where you see the other modifiers.
What happens, when you lose another war? Does your Revanchism get an extension? Is there some guide out there? Losing provinces to an non co-billigerent, gives more Revanchism for less provinces. Is that true?
Revanchism is always ticking down at 10%/year rate, so you need to replenish it. It is additive, so if you lose cores in another war your revanchism will increase by corresponding amount (but it can't go over 100%). So typically you are trying to maintain it somewhere in 50-100 range. Interesting question about losing land to non-co-belligerent - I don't know the answer. If it works the way you've suggested that will be a nice extra tool :) I don't know about guides either.

I did take trade ideas. Sadly I had a big Diplo Points problem, because I had an 6/1/6 ruler. My 3/5/3 heir died in an hunting accident and got replaced by my 6/1/6 heir. I only finished the first 4 ideas of Trade Ideas.
I see. It would help your income a bit, but for the purpose of this challenge it wouldn't make nearly as much difference as interest rate reduction.

I did not have revanchism since I play on normal difficulty and therefore haven't known how abusable it is (since on normal it's easy to win wars without too much hassle). I also forgot to go to Ceylon so that trade is completely missing. And while I had completely conquered Pasai and Siak, Malacca was still alive and strong, so a noticable part of trade in Malacca node went to them and was siphoned away to Gulf of Bengal by other countries. Another mistake might have been to fully state my holdings and use accept cultures and estates to improve income instead of geting admin or economic ideas and conquer more stuff. At the end I still had ~390 dev, but especially Pasai and Siak were conquered late and had high autonomy, so not getting much return from it to tighten my grip on Malacca node
I like Ceylon because it has so many CoT provinces - if you take them you get a nice trade power. In most other nodes, the trade power is more spread out. I used some DIP and ADM to make full cores and accept cultures - not sure if it was efficient, but I was too lazy to fight some more wars for a few extra provinces :)

So why is Ternate more viable than someone like Sienna who starts in the most profitable trade Node in the world to start the game? You can easily (if alliances go your way) take 4-5 centres of trade in the genoa node.

Is it purely ability to blob quickly?
Yeah, I think it's mostly ability to blob. It's also easier to eliminate competition in trade nodes in Asia. I am not sure how well you can do it in Genoa node. You would need to conquer much large dev to have the same share and AE might also be an issue in Europe. Maybe you can try to occupy everyone in Genoa node shortly before 1485. You can certainly try and see if it can work better. Another advantage is that Ternate start is reliable, you don't depend much on luck of alliances and what AI does. You also have a cheap stability at the start - good for quick no-CB wars to jump into a different region

Also why would you take ideas when you could just spam your admin and dip into coring and developing provinces ?
4th admin idea effectively increases your final total by factor of 4 - you won't get that big increase if you spend that ADM on coring. Besides, you get coring cost reduction on the way, so you'll make a good portion of that ADM back and spend it on coring anyway.

It's a shame that there are no OPMs down Kilwa area, as there is four gold mines in one spot and another one up the coast, however the closest opm is pate xd
I think Hormuz sees that area at the start, so it might be an option. Though I think it would be challenging to get both the gold mines and trade up.
 

pratik_maitra

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Ok here is my attempt using a very safe route. There is a lot of room for improvement and with a more agrresive strat, an even greater amount can be accumulated.

Ducats= 101,777.34

eu4_17.png


eu4_19.png


P.S. After clicking for an eternity I can imagine the horror of having to complete a more polished run with even greater loans.
 
Last edited:

Dominion

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@alexti I was wondering, do you use the autonomy bug when returning provinces or do you let them get a 75% autonomy core because you want to reconquest it fast?
 

pratik_maitra

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@alexti I was wondering, do you use the autonomy bug when returning provinces or do you let them get a 75% autonomy core because you want to reconquest it fast?
I think he is talking about Warscore Cost of a province and the autonomy of that province. A high autonomy province has low WS cost and so giving it away to the AI may net lower revanchism.(not sure though)
 

Dominion

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I think he is talking about Warscore Cost of a province and the autonomy of that province. A high autonomy province has low WS cost and so giving it away to the AI may net lower revanchism.(not sure though)
Actually I mean that you can increase autonomy to lower unrest, but handing over a province removes the unrest modifier.

Combined with the bug where - irregardles of any actual autonomy - you always get 100% autonomy even after stating it.
Example: True autonomy is 20%, but it isn't stated so it has 75%.
If you state it and increase autonomy it now has 45%. If you increase autonomy and then state it it stays at 100% autonomy.

In the end you'll be giving them a high-unrest 100% autonomy province instead of something they could use.
 

pratik_maitra

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Actually I mean that you can increase autonomy to lower unrest, but handing over a province removes the unrest modifier.

Combined with the bug where - irregardles of any actual autonomy - you always get 100% autonomy even after stating it.
Example: True autonomy is 20%, but it isn't stated so it has 75%.
If you state it and increase autonomy it now has 45%. If you increase autonomy and then state it it stays at 100% autonomy.

In the end you'll be giving them a high-unrest 100% autonomy province instead of something they could use.
I do not know. In my run I just returned their cores back as the AI was unwilling to accept any other land except for their cores.
 

PhoenixG

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Ok here is my attempt using a very safe route. There is a lot of room for improvement and with a more agrresive strat, an even greater amount can be accumulated.

Ducats= 101,777.34

View attachment 295421

P.S. After clicking for an eternity I can imagine the horror of having to complete a more polished run with even greater loans.

That 113.4% tax modifier :eek:

Also you could use an auto clicker
 

bbqftw

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Do subsidies count for your max loan count?
 

Hessian Mercenary

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Do subsidies count for your max loan count?

Max loan count depends on total income, if you get subsidies your total income increases so you can take more loans.

I tested it as Ryukyu: you can take 261 loans at game start, switching over to Ming and giving Ryukyu the max amount of 37.95 ducats per month in subsidies and switching back again I could now take the ridiculous amount of 6558 loans. Needed a monthly tick of course to adjust income
 

bbqftw

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Max loan count depends on total income, if you get subsidies your total income increases so you can take more loans.

I tested it as Ryukyu: you can take 261 loans at game start, switching over to Ming and giving Ryukyu the max amount of 37.95 ducats per month in subsidies and switching back again I could now take the ridiculous amount of 6558 loans. Needed a monthly tick of course to adjust income
you can get quite a lot of subsidies if you dow the right peoples rivals at the right time...
 

alexti

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@alexti I was wondering, do you use the autonomy bug when returning provinces or do you let them get a 75% autonomy core because you want to reconquest it fast?
What autonomy bug? I just lower LA to get more WS per province.

I think he is talking about Warscore Cost of a province and the autonomy of that province. A high autonomy province has low WS cost and so giving it away to the AI may net lower revanchism.(not sure though)
Yes, that's the reason why I lower LA
 

User29

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so I know bbq has a twitch, but do any of you guys stream on youtube or twitch as well, If I could play 1/5 as well as you guys I would be happy. I play "A Sun God" games but where I lose all my manpower in Intercontinental wars. It'd be great to watch the process of your guys' actions.
 

Liutasiun

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So I tried to do an attempt at this, but didn't really yet understand the loan mechanics, don't usually go that far into loans, as such despite reaching almost 500 development before the deadline I only got about 7000. Gonna do another attempt now in which I will abuse the loan mechanics more
 

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PhoenixG

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The loan size of a single loan is tied to your dev. How many loans is tied to your income and how much interest you pay for each loan as you get bankrupt when your total interest is the same or bigger than your income.
 

knoddy

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Max loan count depends on total income, if you get subsidies your total income increases so you can take more loans.

I tested it as Ryukyu: you can take 261 loans at game start, switching over to Ming and giving Ryukyu the max amount of 37.95 ducats per month in subsidies and switching back again I could now take the ridiculous amount of 6558 loans. Needed a monthly tick of course to adjust income

This gives me an idea that might be exploitable for a run like this, would have to test it tho
 

Liutasiun

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https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd....311/CEA3EC379B8B5498A333E142A0E9C1BAACD9C998/
Tried to do it as hamburg by getting the max interest reduction (4%) with admin idea 4, popacy ability adn 100% revanchism. Getting 100% revanchism was easier said then done though, for what cost me almost 100 warscore I only got like 50 warscore, and so that wass all I had, read earlier on that this was related to autonomy? It's really interesting how much there is still to learn in a game like this through this. Anyhow, 13 will be my final score I suppose. If I had gotten that 100% revanchism I could have maybe quadrupled it, though even then I would still have only come halfway to that 100.000 score, not sure how that one is different.
 

SPAMbuca

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Sorry for my absence the past week. I had some internet trouble. I'll look through the topic once I'm back home and update the list. Great job on the runs so far guys!

For the next challenges, I was considering these:

- remove the Ming tag. You can't start as Ming and release something. You'll have to find a balance/the right moment when to take the mandate on top of a previous challenge where you just had to take the mandate.

- HRE Lake. Play as any nation in the HRE and hold 50 inland provinces. Subjects can't hold coastal provinces for you. I'm considering whether Austria should be allowed or not as I expect everyone to play Austria. Yet, the emperorship might make things random based.
 

SPAMbuca

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so I know bbq has a twitch, but do any of you guys stream on youtube or twitch as well, If I could play 1/5 as well as you guys I would be happy. I play "A Sun God" games but where I lose all my manpower in Intercontinental wars. It'd be great to watch the process of your guys' actions.

If people win a challenge, I would gladly invite them to twitch and see what the winning strategy would look like.