Chagatai missions suggestion

[Romanix90]

Now i decided to try out Chagatai on non Iron Man, to see their missions, NI and so on. I wasn't aware that they share missions with Tatars, which in my opinion is quite unnatural since they're very close to China. One could with them restore even Yuan. Wouldn't be more logical to put them with Mongols and share missions with countries like Oirat due to close proximity with China? Or perhaps they could have their own missions.

 

[jamal bakr]

i guess it depends if you see missions more as a way to guide nations through their national history or as a more hypothetical thing. I don't know which one is correct; sometimes I think it would be fun for Nepal to have a expanded mission tree but on the other hand, Nepal Conquers India would be well into the realm of fantasy.

 

[lambda x.x]

Yeah, I agree with this sentiment. For being one of the four successors (?) of the Mongol Empire on par with Great Horde and Yuan, Chagatai seems to lack flavor (in fact, they can't even directly form MGE, which I find a bit odd flavor wise) and power. 1.29's NI changes were greatly appreciated, although their NIs are very odd and IMO could use tweaking, but a focused mission tree would be really interesting and I think would have potential.

Ilkhanate is on a similar boat in terms of flavor/strength (they can form MGE though), but they've been long gone in 1444, so I find Chagatai more important to focus on.

e: also, I thought Chagatai had generic missions, not Tatar missions. Has that changed on later patches?

 

[Romanix90]

Yeah, I agree with this sentiment. For being one of the four successors (?) of the Mongol Empire on par with Great Horde and Yuan, Chagatai seems to lack flavor (in fact, they can't even directly form MGE, which I find a bit odd flavor wise) and power. 1.29's NI changes were greatly appreciated, although their NIs are very odd and IMO could use tweaking, but a focused mission tree would be really interesting and I think would have potential.

Ilkhanate is on a similar boat in terms of flavor/strength (they can form MGE though), but they've been long gone in 1444, so I find Chagatai more important to focus on.

e: also, I thought Chagatai had generic missions, not Tatar missions. Has that changed on later patches?

They have Tatars missions and share them with countries like Kazan and no it wasn't changed. Again it's my opinion that they fit better to have access to Mongol missions.

 

[lambda x.x]

They have Tatars missions and share them with countries like Kazan and no it wasn't changed. Again it's my opinion that they fit better to have access to Mongol missions.

This is 1.31.6, so I think it has changed recently. I don't see any mentions of Chagatai here https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Patch_1.32.X , but I haven't done any detective work beyond that to figure out when it was changed.

 

[Romanix90]

View attachment 814331

This is 1.31.6, so I think it has changed recently. I don't see any mentions of Chagatai here https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Patch_1.32.X , but I haven't done any detective work beyond that to figure out when it was changed.

This one is 1.33. You're probably right my bad. I didn't play as Chagatai before but newertheless i was interested to see their Missions and NI. The only problem i had with their missions was "Unite the Tatars". Like you have to go all the way to Russia in order to complete that which makes zero sence. That's why i suggested to either move them to Mongol or, idk, give them unique missions.

 

[PrussicAcid]

First of all, Chagatai shouldn't be on the map in 1444. It imploded in 1334, 110 years before EU4's start date....

The two realms that succeeded it were Transoxiana and Moghulistan (EU4's Chagatai who needs a name change). From there, Transoxiana and Moghulistan should share the same mission tree with the reunification of these two territories as a main goal. It would then be possible to form Chagatai (which would be able to form the Great Mongol Empire just like Ilkhanate, Yuan and the Golden Horde), thus gaining new NI and missions.

The current Chagatai mission tree feels out of place, but the map configuration itself is wrong. This is were the job starts.

 

[Darsara]

View attachment 814331

This is 1.31.6, so I think it has changed recently. I don't see any mentions of Chagatai here https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Patch_1.32.X , but I haven't done any detective work beyond that to figure out when it was changed.

Yes, Chagatai and Yarkan were given access to Tatar missions with 1.33.2. They misspelt Tatar as Tartar, so you can't search for Tatar.

 

[Romanix90]

First of all, Chagatai shouldn't be on the map in 1444. It imploded in 1334, 110 years before EU4's start date....

The two realms that succeeded it were Transoxiana and Moghulistan (EU4's Chagatai who needs a name change). From there, Transoxiana and Moghulistan should share the same mission tree with the reunification of these two territories as a main goal. It would then be possible to form Chagatai (which would be able to form the Great Mongol Empire just like Ilkhanate, Yuan and the Golden Horde), thus gaining new NI and missions.

The current Chagatai mission tree feels out of place, but the map configuration itself is wrong. This is were the job starts.

You're quite right. I just checked on Wiki and it's true that Chagatai didn't exist at 1444 start date. So decision to restore Chagatai is in place. I think that one of the devs once said that they do plan to revisit Far East Asia again, do some missions and perhaps some map change.

 

[Jihem]

There will probably never be any of that, and the whole area will never really be complete. The lack of rigor and depth about the "Tatar" peoples as a whole is a real sign of casualness.

 

[grandadmiralbob]

Chagatai should have Mongol ideas IMO.

 

[necro84]

Mongol Empire was split into 4 parts - Yuan, Golden Horde, Chagatai and Ilkhanate. Oirat and Mongol Missions are for recreation of Yuan, Tatar missions are for recreation of Golden Horde and both mission trees wouldn't be good for Chagatai. Conquest in Europe is strange but conquering Oirat, Mongolia and Korchin also would be strange. I think one mission tree for Chagatai and Ilkhanate would be the best and it should focus on controling Central Asia, Khorsan and Persia (maybe two branches that meets after few missions like Tibet or give claims on other areas like Timurids)

 

[Romanix90]

i guess it depends if you see missions more as a way to guide nations through their national history or as a more hypothetical thing. I don't know which one is correct; sometimes I think it would be fun for Nepal to have a expanded mission tree but on the other hand, Nepal Conquers India would be well into the realm of fantasy.

You're correct about that one. Missions to me are more like a guide line and i do like to complete them. And i would definitely like to see missions for Nepal but also for Ceylon and Punjab.

 

[Jihem]

EU IV will soon celebrate its tenth anniversary. Mission trees were introduced in 2018, I believe. If the final version does not include a mission tree for each tag - or possibly regional trees for minor tags - the game can be considered sloppy.

 

[Romanix90]

EU IV will soon celebrate its tenth anniversary. Mission trees were introduced in 2018, I believe. If the final version does not include a mission tree for each tag - or possibly regional trees for minor tags - the game can be considered sloppy.

Also they should expand missions for some nations like Russia or Qing. For Russia give them missions to conquer Caucasus and Central Asia and remove generic missions for Qing with more unique missions.

 

[AvengedK1ng]

Also they should expand missions for some nations like Russia or Qing. For Russia give them missions to conquer Caucasus and Central Asia and remove generic missions for Qing with more unique missions.

How does more unique qing look?

Now i decided to try out Chagatai on non Iron Man, to see their missions, NI and so on. I wasn't aware that they share missions with Tatars, which in my opinion is quite unnatural since they're very close to China. One could with them restore even Yuan. Wouldn't be more logical to put them with Mongols and share missions with countries like Oirat due to close proximity with China? Or perhaps they could have their own missions.

West to East steppe conquest was far more rare than East to West steppe conquest. Chagatai is in awkward spot, they did go on to raid india when first founded and had abortive conquests, but timurids fill that niche, and you can just culture shift to form mughals

First of all, Chagatai shouldn't be on the map in 1444. It imploded in 1334, 110 years before EU4's start date....

The two realms that succeeded it were Transoxiana and Moghulistan (EU4's Chagatai who needs a name change). From there, Transoxiana and Moghulistan should share the same mission tree with the reunification of these two territories as a main goal. It would then be possible to form Chagatai (which would be able to form the Great Mongol Empire just like Ilkhanate, Yuan and the Golden Horde), thus gaining new NI and missions.

The current Chagatai mission tree feels out of place, but the map configuration itself is wrong. This is were the job starts.

Moghulistan is the "Roman Empire not Byz!" of the east in the eu4 modding community. What do people who want a super accurate set up want to do to timurids, is ferghana a seperate vassal eg?

 

[Romanix90]

How does more unique qing look?

Just replace generic missions with more unique.

West to East steppe conquest was far more rare than East to West steppe conquest. Chagatai is in awkward spot, they did go on to raid india when first founded and had abortive conquests, but timurids fill that niche, and you can just culture shift to form mughals

Yes but this is more what if scenario. They don't need to have unique missions, suggestion was to place them into Mongol missions because of close proximity to China. Reason why i al ready explained.

Edit : When i say unique i mean like missions England or France have.

 

[necro84]

@Romanix90 the main problem is that Chagatai can't become emperor of China without changing religion. Changing religion from Sunni to Vajrayana (from mission conquest of Tibet) is also very strange so Mongol mission tree doesn't work for them.

Their missions should start with conquering Central Asia and Mongolia, later conquering Khorsan, Persia and Pontic Steppe. After that missions should be conquest of Russia, Ruthenia, Ural, Mashriq, Anatloia, North China (and later South China, Xinan)
Changing one bad mission tree for another bad isn't a sollution.

 

[Romanix90]

@Romanix90 the main problem is that Chagatai can't become emperor of China without changing religion. Changing religion from Sunni to Vajrayana (from mission conquest of Tibet) is also very strange so Mongol mission tree doesn't work for them.

Their missions should start with conquering Central Asia and Mongolia, later conquering Khorsan, Persia and Pontic Steppe. After that missions should be conquest of Russia, Ruthenia, Ural, Mashriq, Anatloia, North China (and later South China, Xinan)
Changing one bad mission tree for another bad isn't a sollution.

In non Iron Man i used consoles to see if Chagatai can restore Yuan and they can. Being Sunni isn't a problem. Only downside is that you can't become EoC. Placing them into Mongol missions feels more natural because of close proximity to China. Curently they share missions with Tatars which means that in order to complete their first mission they have to conquer some territories in Russia. As for religion player does have a choice there to stay Sunni. And about Chagatai specific missions i do agree with you, they should have their own missions.

 

[necro84]

Of course they can form Yuan, the only requirement is altaic culture group. Timurids also can form Yuan, so does Transoxiana, Uzbekh or Khazakh when released. Two nations with Timurid missions and two with Tatar missions
Check what is required to complete first Mongol mission - you need to conquer territories from Oirat and Mongolia, second mission also forces you to conquer from Korchin. Is this better than conquest in Russia? I think Korchin may be even further than Kazan.

I'm not defending Tatar missions for Chagatai but showing that both trees are equally wrong for them.