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ptan54

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Well as I understand the Somme for Britain and Germany was shocking, but not devastating in the same way that Brusilov was for Austria....after that their back was really broken and were hanging by a thread on a life support machine, no?

But I see what you mean, the Russian AI may not decide to do Brusilovs and it would be unfair to single out poor old Franz Josef.
 

Shadow Knight

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Originally posted by Allenby
I agree that suddently increasing infrastructure would probably be a tad unrealistic - if anything, putting more trains on the tracks would clog things up rather than make the movement of men quicker and more efficient.

Yeah, but I couldn't think of anything else beyond the free declarations of war. Although we might also want to lower WE for the US for honoring Belgium's neutrality (at least for now.)
 

Allenby

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Originally posted by shdwknightx
Yeah, but I couldn't think of anything else beyond the free declarations of war. Although we might also want to lower WE for the US for honoring Belgium's neutrality (at least for now.)

I think that would be a good idea, certainly.

Increasing infrastructure would just have been a little perculiar though: more trains always equals slower movement - anyone who regularly travels on the Dartford to Charing Cross commuter line, like myself, would know this to be an annoying fact ;)
 

ptan54

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What about this as a "freebie" for DOWing the Dutch.

###Increased Conscription
##With the implementation of the original Schlieffen Plan, there is a need for greater numbers of troops on the right wing. The OHL has issued orders to round up all able bodied reservists to fight.

Gain 10 infantry in Essen. I know reservists are meant to be militia, but no one is going to bother choosing this for 10 militia.....
Johan said troop gaining was problematic, but I've seen troop gaining events before and that wasnt brought up....anyone want to clarify?

Dissent +8, Supplies -800.
To simulate the German populace being unhappy about this sudden conscription and the extra work needed to do this consumes resources.

And with the Dutch in the war, we have to look over the peace treaties again. Germans should get Indonesia if they win, and if its a post 1916 victory maybe take everything the Dutch have. Curacao will trigger the Monroe Doctrine event. If Germans lose, I dont see the Dutch getting anything, since the Belgians only got Eupen and Malmedy in our timeline, not overly significant and cant be implemented on the map we have.
 

Johan Elisson

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Originally posted by ptan54
What about this as a "freebie" for DOWing the Dutch.

###Increased Conscription
##With the implementation of the original Schlieffen Plan, there is a need for greater numbers of troops on the right wing. The OHL has issued orders to round up all able bodied reservists to fight.

Gain 10 infantry in Essen. I know reservists are meant to be militia, but no one is going to bother choosing this for 10 militia.....
Johan said troop gaining was problematic, but I've seen troop gaining events before and that wasnt brought up....anyone want to clarify?

There are several "problems" with adding divisions by events:

a) The added divisions are all given the same name, i.e. "1. Infanteriedivision". Which might not be a big gameplay issue, but I would get a little irritated at it, an I am surely not alone about that.
b) Adding divisions to a province does not work with regular infantry divisions.
c) I am unsure wether adding divisions with brigades is working or not (there are some scripted events with this for TGW).
d) Except for mobilization events (which simulates building up divisions with an already existing cadre), I dislike events adding divisions here and there, because it simply isn't realistic.

So, in real life, if Germany would have chosen to attack the Netherlands also, would there pop up ten militia divisions in Wilhelmshaven? No.

And with the Dutch in the war, we have to look over the peace treaties again. Germans should get Indonesia if they win, and if its a post 1916 victory maybe take everything the Dutch have. Curacao will trigger the Monroe Doctrine event. If Germans lose, I dont see the Dutch getting anything, since the Belgians only got Eupen and Malmedy in our timeline, not overly significant and cant be implemented on the map we have.

On this I agree though. :)
 

ptan54

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a) The added divisions are all given the same name, i.e. "1. Infanteriedivision". Which might not be a big gameplay issue, but I would get a little irritated at it, an I am surely not alone about that.
b) Adding divisions to a province does not work with regular infantry divisions.
c) I am unsure wether adding divisions with brigades is working or not (there are some scripted events with this for TGW).
d) Except for mobilization events (which simulates building up divisions with an already existing cadre), I dislike events adding divisions here and there, because it simply isn't realistic.

Names can be changed no?

What do you mean by adding brigades?

This event is from Josips mod

event = {
country = ENG
id = 56003
random = no
style = 0
name = "Mobilisation"
desc = "From all corners of the empire, troops spring to the defence of the mother country"

trigger = {
atwar = yes
}

date = { day = 0 month = january year = 1914 }
offset = 1
deathdate = { day = 0 month = january year = 1924 }

action_a = {
name = "Excellent!"
command = { type = add_division which = paratrooper when = 2078 } # 1st Australian Division
command = { type = add_division which = paratrooper when = 128 } # 1st Canadian Division
command = { type = add_division which = infantry } # 7th Division
command = { type = add_division which = infantry } # 8th Division
command = { type = manpowerpool value = 650 }
}
}

event = {
country = FRA
id = 20001
random = no
style = 0
name = "Mobilisation"
desc = "Faced by war, France summons its reservists back to the colours"

trigger = { atwar = yes }

date = { day = 0 month = january year = 1914 }
offset = 1
deathdate = { day = 0 month = january year = 1924 }

action_a = {
name = "Tres bien"
# Reserve divisions numbered 51st to 75th inclusive
command = { type = add_division which = infantry }
command = { type = add_division which = infantry }
command = { type = add_division which = infantry }
command = { type = add_division which = infantry }
command = { type = add_division which = infantry }
command = { type = add_division which = infantry }
command = { type = add_division which = infantry }
command = { type = add_division which = infantry }
command = { type = add_division which = infantry }
command = { type = add_division which = infantry }
command = { type = add_division which = infantry }
command = { type = add_division which = infantry }
command = { type = add_division which = infantry }
command = { type = add_division which = infantry }
command = { type = add_division which = infantry }
command = { type = add_division which = infantry }
command = { type = add_division which = infantry }
command = { type = add_division which = infantry }
command = { type = add_division which = infantry }
command = { type = add_division which = infantry }
command = { type = add_division which = infantry }
command = { type = add_division which = infantry }
command = { type = add_division which = infantry }
command = { type = add_division which = infantry }
command = { type = add_division which = infantry }
# Territorial divisions numbered 81st to 89th, 91st, 92nd
command = { type = add_division which = militia }
command = { type = add_division which = militia }
command = { type = add_division which = militia }
command = { type = add_division which = militia }
command = { type = add_division which = militia }
command = { type = add_division which = militia }
command = { type = add_division which = militia }
command = { type = add_division which = militia }
command = { type = add_division which = militia }
command = { type = add_division which = militia }
command = { type = add_division which = militia }
# Elite colonial divisions formed in North Africa
command = { type = add_division which = paratrooper when = 1011 } # Division de Maroc
command = { type = add_division which = paratrooper when = 1077 } # 2nd Colonial
command = { type = add_division which = paratrooper when = 1077 } # 3rd Colonial
}
}

Adding divisions to the force pool is definitely possible, and he's even named them.

I think something like this should apply to Germany.

What wouldve happened in real life? Left wing weakened to bolster the right, but we cant do that by event, so this is next best. And I do see enlarging the Germany Army if they went to war with the Dutch.
 

Johan Elisson

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Originally posted by ptan54
Names can be changed no?

Yes, but the whole unitnames.csv list will then be a complete waste of time.

What do you mean by adding brigades?

I am unsure on wether adding divisions with an attached brigade works.

This event is from Josips mod

[...]

Adding divisions to the force pool is definitely possible, and he's even named them.

Yes, adding divisions to the forcepool works with all divisions, I never said anything else. But adding divisions to a specified province is not working with all types. No, he hasn't named them, the names after the "#" is a comment and is not a command.

What wouldve happened in real life? Left wing weakened to bolster the right, but we cant do that by event, so this is next best.

No, your idea is the third best, after letting the AI or player move his divisions more to the right flank, which is a 1000 times easier, since the AI knows to move divisions to a border where there is a war going on.

And I do see enlarging the Germany Army if they went to war with the Dutch.

A bigger enlargement than they made in real life? Had the German army been able to raise more divisions if they declared war on the Netherlands? I actually don't think so. And again, the AI or player is good at building new divisions, so no problem there either.

I'm sorry if I am sounding rude (I think I sound rude, but it is not my meaning to do so), but I don't see any advantage with controlling a country to the extent of building divisions and moving divisions when not necessary?

/Johan
 

ptan54

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No, your idea is the third best, after letting the AI or player move his divisions more to the right flank, which is a 1000 times easier, since the AI knows to move divisions to a border where there is a war going on.

There's a war going on the left wing as well, so I won't be too confident about the AI. As for the player, he wont even pick this choice in most cases, and if he does then he's obviously got a good plan already, so this suggestion is catered for an AI Germany. In fact there's a war going on the ENTIRE WESTERN BORDER of Germany.

So why not just add divisions to the force pool? Is it just the realism factor thats bothering you? Because the coding isnt too troublesome, something like this:

trigger = {
atwar = yes ##change to at war with HOL and the Entente
}

date = { day = 0 month = january year = 1914 }
offset = 1
deathdate = { day = 0 month = january year = 1924 }

action_a = {
name = "Excellent!"
##10 of these
command = { type = add_division which = infantry }
}
}

As for rudeness, I'm accustomed to abuse anyway, so no worries there.
 

Shadow Knight

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I agree with Johan on this, there is no plausible reason for adding divisions. The reason the Schlieffen Plan was modified in the first place was because of the lack of available divisions and manpower to actually pull it off.

As for victory conditions, yeah if Germany is at war with the Dutch they should get some additional colonies. I would say give them Java (at the time the best part of the Indonesian colonies) and the Rest of New Guinea.
 

ptan54

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Between 1905 and 1914, 9 more divisions (360,000 men) became available.

Moltke put 8 of these on the left wing and only 1 on the right. The changes were not so much the lack of men, but because Moltke's pride dictated to him that the French should not take German territory, whereas Schlieffen was more than happy for the French to drive into Alsace when the First Army was doing its work.

I think Germany wouldve taken all of Indonesia (is that what you meant shdwknightx?) in the event of any victory.
 

Shadow Knight

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In retrospect I wonder if Germany would have annexed the Netherlands outright like they planned to do with Belgium?

I could see them annexing all of Indonesia, but if you look at all a victorious Germany was to get...Belgium, the Kongo, French and British Affrican lands to link Kameroon to Togoland. Other areas of Africa (To complete Midel-Afrika), French Indochina, (I believe Metz province in France), and other gains. Not to mention the economic sanctions against the Entente. Add in the Netherlands and all of Indonesia and Germany is digesting a very large portion.

And those extra nine divisions were still not enough to deploy the original Schlieffen Plan. IIRC Schlieffen had detailed just how many men Germany would need to pull this off and he came up short every time (even compensating at times for increases in manpower).
 

ptan54

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Originally posted by StephenT
As an event description, can I suggest something on these lines?

'Choice a: "Stick to the timetable". Declare war on Belgium.
Choice b: "Implement the original Schlieffen plan in full". Declare war on Belgium and the Netherlands.
Choice c: "Defend in the West, attack in the East" Dissent 10.

If desired, instead of "declare war" trigger the appropriate event for "Germany demands access"

The dissent hit represents disorganised troops without their proper supplies or transport.

From this I assume there's an event called "Germany demands access"?

So if choice a or b are picked, trigger the Germany demands access from Belgium or Belgium and Netherlands, and if they refuse then DOW, if they accept then fine.

Schlieffen came up short every time? I thought he only tinkered with it up to a certain point, and that was long before 1914. Maybe the 9 divisions were not enough but had Schlieffen been in charge in 1914 (yes I know he died in 1913) he would not have made the modifications, so the changes werent really made because of manpower shortages, but rather a fear of France in Alsace and Russia in the East. If the changes were made out of manpower concerns, AND if Schlieffen came up short every time, then Schlieffen himself would have made the changes, no?

As for war aims, Germany didnt want to annex all of Belgium I think, but take a huge portion of it and create a vassal state. I suspect the same with the Netherlands, so they gain greater access to the North Sea, but at the same time limit the number of non Germans in the Reich proper. Wilhelm wasnt Hitler, he wouldnt have annexed huge swaths of Non German territory and decide to Germanise it by killing or expelling anyone who wasnt German.
 
Last edited:

StephenT

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Ahem... those mobilisation events were written by me, not Josip. :p And yes, the name after the # is purely a comment to show anybody reading the event code that the new division is historical, not just pulled out of the air.

While I disagree with new divisions just appearing, I can sympathise with ptan's idea that Germany could have increased consciption if choosing a larger war. However, that shouldn't give fully formed divisions, it should give extra manpower and an increase in dissent, perhaps a -1 to ICs in a couple of random provinces (calling up the workforce).
 

ptan54

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Ah you wrote the events! Kudos!

I'd say an increase of 200 manpower then and +3 dissent.

Lose 1 IC in Munster, Essen, Koln, Wilhelmshaven.

Does anyone happen to know exactly what the war aims were BTW?

Wasnt it:
Annex -
Lorraine, Eastern Belgium, Maastricht, Luxembourg, Lithuania, Bits of Poland, loads of Colonies.

Puppet - Estonia, Latvia, Poland, Ukraine (??? original aim or only Brest Litovsk ???)

Create Central European Free Trade Zone.
 
Last edited:

Shadow Knight

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That is pretty close to what I consider their war aims.

As for Schlieffen, the reason he kept tinkering with it was because her knew that there just was not enough manpower available period(To enact his plan and defend the Eastern front). He also realized that the longer amount of time that went by his plan would became useless because it depended on a slow Russian mobilization (which allowed more men to be diverted towards the West).

However with an increasing number of railroads being constructed in Russia their mobilization would became ever faster (Which why the Germans and everybody else was kind of suprised at the speed Russia mobilized in the first place.) leaving even less men for the Great Rigth Arm (tm) of the Schlieffen Plan.

And much thanks to Stephen for writing those mobilization events, I just didn't have the will power after figuring out all those damn numbers and where they were supposed to go...ugh.
 

ptan54

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Yes, I'm still unsure about Ukraine though.

So we're all in agreement about Stephen's suggestion for increasing manpower for a larger war?

I've completed the action B part of the Unrestricted Submarine Warfare, and added some events it triggers.

Germany gets Unrestricted Doc, as well as 2 techs to get +2 Naval att. later on which I think is fair since the program became more damaging.

event = {
id = 21503
random = no
country = GER

name = "Restrictions on U-Boat Warfare"
desc = "We must now impose strict limitations on the operation of our submarines."
style = 0

action_a = {
name = "Impose the restrictions."
command = { type = trigger which = 56504 } # ENG
}

action_b = {
name = "We do not fear these empty American threats!"

command = { type = setflag which = flag1 }

##flags = {
## flag1 = no WHERE DO I CREATE THIS OBJECT?
## }

command = { type = add_division which = submarine }
command = { type = add_division which = submarine }
command = { type = add_division which = submarine }
command = { type = add_division which = submarine }
command = { type = add_division which = submarine }
command = { type = add_division which = submarine }
command = { type = add_division which = submarine }
command = { setflag which = uboats }


type = gain_tech which = [tech id 13102] ##Unlimited Sub Warfare, +15 Org

command = { type = dissent value = -3 } ##Der Oberste Heeres-Leitung is most pleased


command = { type = trigger which = 2150A} ##Germany gains Torpedo Correction Trials Testing, Dec 1915
command = { type = trigger which = 2150B} ##Germany gains Improved Conventional Torpedo, February 1916
command = { type = trigger which = 56XXA} ##British lose 1000 supplies immediately, +3 Dissent
command = { type = trigger which = 56XXB} ##British gain Blue Water Doctrine immediately
command = { type = trigger which = 56XXC} ##British +4 dissent Dec 1915, lose 100 supplies
command = { type = trigger which = 56XXD} ##British gain Sea Lanes Doctrine, Feb 1916
command = { type = trigger which = 58XXX} ##Americans Declare War, April 1916

}

event = {
id = 2150A
random = no
country = GER

trigger = {
atwar = yes
{ flag = flag1 }
}

name = "Advances in U-Boat Warfare"
desc = "The Kriegsmarine has refined our unrestricted submarine warfare"
style = 0

date = { day = 1 month = December year = 1915}


action_a = {
name = "Sehr Gut!"
type = gain_tech which = [tech id 5202] ##Torpedo Correction Trials Testing, +1 Naval Att
}
}

event = {
id = 2150B
random = no
country = GER

trigger = {
atwar = yes
{ flag = flag1 }
}


name = "Advances in U-Boat Warfare"
desc = "The Kriegsmarine has refined our unrestricted submarine warfare"
style = 0

date = { day = 1 month = February year = 1916}


action_a = {
name = "Sehr Gut!"
type = gain_tech which = [tech id 5302] ##Improved Conventional Torpedo, +1 Naval Att
}
}






#########British events
event = {
id = 56XXA
random = no
country = eng

trigger = {
atwar = yes
{ flag = flag1 }

}

name = "Supplies crisis"
desc = "Germany has continued with its war of total aggression on the seas. Our merchant shipping is taking severe losses."
style = 0

command = { type = dissent value = 3}
command = { type = supplies which = -1500 }
}

event = {
id = 56XXB
random = no
country = eng

trigger = {
atwar = yes
{ flag = flag1 }

}
date = { day = 1 month = December year = 1915}

name = "Countering the Submarine Threat"
desc = "Britain cannot allow the Hun to threaten her mastery of the oceans. The Admiralty has developed new techniques to counter the submarine threat."
style = 0

type = gain_tech which = [tech id 13001] ##Blue Water Doctrine

}

event = {
id = 56XXC
random = no
country = eng


date = { day = 1 month = December year = 1915}

trigger = {
atwar = yes
{ flag = flag1 }

}

name = "Supplies crisis"
desc = "Germany has continued with its war of total aggression on the seas. Our merchant shipping is taking severe losses."
style = 0

command = { type = dissent value = 4}
command = { type = supplies which = -100 }
}

event = {
id = 56XXD
random = no
country = eng

trigger = {
atwar = yes
{ flag = flag1 }

}
date = { day = 1 month = February year = 1916}

name = "The Convoy System"
desc = "Britain cannot allow the Hun to threaten her mastery of the oceans. The Admiralty has developed new techniques to counter the submarine threat."
style = 0

type = gain_tech which = [tech id 13005] ##Sea Lanes Doctrine

}


event = {
id = 56XXE
random = no
country = eng

trigger = {
atwar = yes
war = { country = GER country = USA}

}

name = "The United States joins the Entente"
desc = "The United States of America has joined our cause against the Central Powers! Entente Cordiale!"
style = 0

command = { type = dissent value = -8}

}

#############USA Events

event = {
id = 58XXA
random = no
country = usa

trigger = {
{ flag = flag1 }
war = { country = GER country = ENG}
war = { country = GER country = FRA}

}
date = { day = 1 month = April year = 1916}

name = "War against Germany" ##Should I give the US player a chance to NOT declare war?
desc = "The Hun shows complete disregard for all mankind, butchering innocent civilians on land and at sea. The United States must make the world safe for democracy and is compelled to act!"
style = 0

command = { type = alliance which = ENG }
command = { type = dissent value = -2} ##The dogs of war, baying for German blood, get their wish

}

###########France Events

event = {
id = 20XXA
random = no
country = FRA

trigger = {
atwar = yes
war = { country = GER country = USA}

}

name = "The United States joins the Entente"
desc = "The United States of America has joined our cause against the Central Powers! Layafette, nous sommes voici!"
style = 0

command = { type = dissent value = -8}

}
 
Last edited:

StephenT

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Originally posted by ptan54
Trigger = { event = 21503}##ONLY OPTION B, How do I do this? }

Use the setflag command as one of the actions for option B, then have that flag as a trigger to the next event.

BTW, for the French event announcing the US declaration of war, can we work the quote "Lafayette, nous sommes voici!" into either the title, description or action choice text? :)