• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Allenby

Custom User Title
8 Badges
Apr 4, 2003
7.170
5
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Hearts of Iron II: Beta
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
Originally posted by Johan Elisson
should there be another event that makes them join the war anyways? Maybe a little later than historically?

Seeing as the Turks and Germans signed a secret alliance on the 2nd August, then yes - it should probably come into effect rather rapidly too (maybe a month after when those battleship events should have triggered)

By the way, could you post the Goeben and Breslau events? They need to be reworded slightly.
 

Allenby

Custom User Title
8 Badges
Apr 4, 2003
7.170
5
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Hearts of Iron II: Beta
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
It's more about descriptions than anything else. Essentially, I want to remove any reference to the Goeben and Breslau themselves and simply refer to 'German ships'. By doing that, the Germans can have the two ships in the OOB from the outset and can use them however they like. Problematically, by having the Germans ships present at the start, Turkey will gain two ships through these events without the Central Powers having lost any ships at all - slightly unfair on the other side. Maybe we should remove the 'add_division which = battleship' for the Turkish events, but still have them enter the war when these 'German ships' arrive.
 

StephenT

OT iconoclast
89 Badges
Mar 10, 2001
8.721
317
  • Age of Wonders II
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Sengoku
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • March of the Eagles
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Cities in Motion
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Deus Vult
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Age of Wonders
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
I agree.(to Johan's post about the Schlieffen plan). It does seem a little odd that an AI-Germany never bothers to declare war on Belgium :)

As an event description, can I suggest something on these lines?

'The Schlieffen Plan'
Trigger: Germany is at war with Russia.
"Ever since France and Russia became allies, Germany had been faced with the possibility of war on two fronts. In 1905, Chief of the General Staff Schlieffen devised the plan that bore his name. It called for a sudden, massive attack in the West, passing through the neutral Low Countries in order to encircle the French Army. The idea was to defeat the French before Russia could mobilise its vast but ponderous forces. However, when the long-feared war actually arrived, Kaiser Wilhelm had an attack of last-minute nerves. He asked his generals to stand on the defensive in the West, cancel the attack on Belgium in case it provoked Britain, and send all their troops against Russia instead. The High Command refused, saying that to change the plan at such short notice would be disastrous."

Choice a: "Stick to the timetable". Declare war on Belgium.
Choice b: "Implement the original Schlieffen plan in full". Declare war on Belgium and the Netherlands.
Choice c: "Defend in the West, attack in the East" Dissent 10.

If desired, instead of "declare war" trigger the appropriate event for "Germany demands access"

The dissent hit represents disorganised troops without their proper supplies or transport.
 

Shadow Knight

Admiral of the Fleet
55 Badges
Apr 18, 2002
1.988
2
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • BATTLETECH - Beta Backer
  • BATTLETECH - Backer
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • BATTLETECH
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis: Rome Collectors Edition
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Ancient Space
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
One question: Cannot events be AI/Human only? Such as it only occurs if the country is being played by an AI or human. This event may be the best way to go to encourage historical development when the human is another country. However I think another approach is needed for a human player.

If so use Stephen's event for the AI and see below for the human event.


I can understand the need to have Belgium and Germany go to war, but I don't like forcing the player to do so or suffer a high dissent. Perhaps instead several of the officers of the high command resigning over this.

This could be done by losing say several of your best officers plus a modest 1 to 3 dissent over their loss, and change your army minister. I just don't understand a 10% dissent. I was not aware that the German people has access to the Schlieffen Plan, thus causing them to be being pissed off about it not being acted upon.

So I would propose something like this for a human:

desc: Use Stephen's because it is a good description

a) Belgium has refused access, thus we must declare war on them to maintain our timetable.

b) Schlieffen Plan as it was meant to be, war with Belgium and the Netherlands.

c) Defend in the West and war in the East. (Suffer the loses of the officers, and the army minister, plus the small dissent increase.)
 

ptan54

General
32 Badges
Sep 28, 2003
2.014
0
Visit site
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis III
  • War of the Roses
  • Sengoku
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
Yep, Moltke wouldve resigned, as well as some members of the OHL Im not overly familiar with. A +5 dissent seems reasonable.

However I think the declare war on Belgium and Netherlands option should have some sort of plus, otherwise its pointless choosing it for the human. The AI would always pick A-declare war on Belgium, am I correct? So B would be a choice for the player, and as it is there's no incentive to choose it.
 

Allenby

Custom User Title
8 Badges
Apr 4, 2003
7.170
5
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Hearts of Iron II: Beta
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
Originally posted by ptan54
Yep, Moltke wouldve resigned, as well as some members of the OHL Im not overly familiar with. A +5 dissent seems reasonable.

However I think the declare war on Belgium and Netherlands option should have some sort of plus, otherwise its pointless choosing it for the human. The AI would always pick A-declare war on Belgium, am I correct? So B would be a choice for the player, and as it is there's no incentive to choose it.

Surely the 'plus' side for the human German player is the opportunity to outflank France's border defences :)

I don't think a 10% or even 5% dissent increase is reasonable, as that has more to do with the public's mood and perception as to how the war is being waged. The German people would too be happy out of patriotic fervour to be fighting the French and Russians to care about the mechanics of the plan involved. Perhaps Germany's supplies should be eroded in a slight way to represent the confusion over changing the plan at the eleventh hour.
 

ptan54

General
32 Badges
Sep 28, 2003
2.014
0
Visit site
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis III
  • War of the Roses
  • Sengoku
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
Point taken about the dissent hit. The German public didnt know about the plans at all - unfortunately we can't simulate army morale here.

Well by declaring war on Netherlands AND Belgium versus Belgium alone, I dont see any advantages gained. The outflanking could be done without having to declare war on the Netherlands.....perhaps we should have a great big fort (lv 3?) at Arlon but have Maastrict as a "come and get me"? Minor advantage but I really cannot think of anything else. Schlieffen initially want this to make the wide arc possible, but that just doesnt fit into the game engine. We cant simulate the congestion through the narrow Belgian border either.

Penalties for abandoning the plan could be -500 supplies and lose service of 2 generals. (one is Moltke)
 

Johan Elisson

ex-Great War[lord]
87 Badges
Apr 11, 2002
1.160
0
www.elisson.eu
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
In my event, the declaration of war against belgium lowered Germany's diplomatic influence, while no declaration of war raised it slightly, to simulate not breaking any treaties, and thus gaining respect in the rest of the world. Any + for the HOL and BEL attack is hard to find though...

/Johan
 

Shadow Knight

Admiral of the Fleet
55 Badges
Apr 18, 2002
1.988
2
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • BATTLETECH - Beta Backer
  • BATTLETECH - Backer
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • BATTLETECH
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis: Rome Collectors Edition
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Ancient Space
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
So this is what we got so far, just to recap. (and a few more ideas I had at the moment)

Using Stephen's description.

Choice A) Follow the modified Schlieffen Plan
-Loose DI (-5)
-Plus say 500 supplies to simulate the smoothness of the exact planning.

Choice B) Modified, Schmodified. I want the full blown plan.
-Loose DI (-10)
-Loose 50 supplies to represent having to shift timetables and trains.
-An increase in infrastructure by 5 in the provinces bordering the Netherlands and Belgium. (The only plus I could think of for this one, to represent last minute increase in trains.)

Choice C) Defend in the West, Advance in the East. Russia must be defeated first.
-Plus DI (+5)
-Increase of infrastructure in 5 of the provinces bordering Russia (biggest cities).
-Supply decrease (-200) for needing to change timetables and railroad timetables.
-Loose Moltke as a leader, loose Army minister, and perahps one other leader.
 

ptan54

General
32 Badges
Sep 28, 2003
2.014
0
Visit site
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis III
  • War of the Roses
  • Sengoku
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
Infrastructure gain is good idea.

Is there a way to "force strategic redeploy"?

Option B could make use of this, by deploying divisions from (somewhere) to the Belgian Dutch border, since the original plan was all about "Keep the right wing strong!" as well as going through Maastricht.

Or - kill off some units in the East and in Elsass Lothringen, and gain some on the Belgian Dutch border. All infantry units to keep it simple.

Also - I read that Schlieffen intended for German statecraft to ask the Dutch for military access. Perhaps we should have an event in the case of option B to ask both Belgium and Netherlands for access, and if they both refuse (or one of them) then the appropriate declarations of war are made.

Who was the army minister at the time? Does anyone know of generals close to Moltke, or were all for the Western front being decisive? Would Falkenhayn be a fair choice?
 
Last edited:

Johan Elisson

ex-Great War[lord]
87 Badges
Apr 11, 2002
1.160
0
www.elisson.eu
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
Modified event even further complementing StephenT's excelent description with some stuff that I wrote in my description. :)

Name: "The Schlieffen Plan"

Trigger: Germany is at war with Russia and France, Belgium and the Netherlands is not at war (and thus not in any alliance either) and hasn't granted military access to Germany.
Just realized that there is no trigger for military access, which could make this event look pretty stupid if Germany has military access through Belgium, but still declares war on them later on... :eek:o

Description: "Ever since France and Russia became allies, Germany had been faced with the possibility of war on two fronts. In 1905, Chief of the General Staff Graf Alfred von Schlieffen devised the plan that bore his name. It called for a sudden, massive attack in the West, passing through the neutral Low Countries in order to encircle the French Army. The idea was to defeat the French in a maximum of 40 days before Russia could mobilise its vast but ponderous forces. However, when the long-feared war actually arrived, Kaiser Wilhelm had an attack of last-minute nerves. He asked his generals to stand on the defensive in the West, cancel the attack on Belgium in case it provoked Britain, and send all their troops against Russia instead. The High Command refused, saying that to change the plan at such short notice would be disastrous. But violating the neutrality of Belgium could have disastrous results, if the United Kingdom choose to enter the war, which would mean that Germany had to face an enemy with an empire where the sun never set."

Action A: "The war in the west shall be over in 40 days!"
* war on Belgium
* influence -10
* supplies +500

Action B: "Implement the original Schlieffen plan in full."
* war on Belgium
* war on the Netherlands
* influence -15
* infrastructure +5 in border provinces

Action C: "Russia must be defeated first."
* influence +10
* infrastructure +5 in border provinces
* supplies -500
* loose leader(s)
* loose chief of army

/Johan
 
Last edited:

Johan Elisson

ex-Great War[lord]
87 Badges
Apr 11, 2002
1.160
0
www.elisson.eu
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
Originally posted by ptan54
Is there a way to "force strategic redeploy"?

No.

Option B could make use of this, by deploying divisions from (somewhere) to the Belgian Dutch border, since the original plan was all about "Keep the right wing strong!" as well as going through Maastricht.

Or - kill off some units in the East and in Elsass Lothringen, and gain some on the Belgian Dutch border. All infantry units to keep it simple.

Impossible. There is no way for the event to "know" where units are placed, and adding divisions to specified provinces is bugged for regular infantry divisions.

Also - I read that Schlieffen intended for German statecraft to ask the Dutch for military access. Perhaps we should have an event in the case of option B to ask both Belgium and Netherlands for access, and if they both refuse (or one of them) then the appropriate declarations of war are made.

I think it would make things too complicated, and we'll have to rely on AI/Human Germany to ask for access (which the AI in fact does now and then).

/Johan
 

ptan54

General
32 Badges
Sep 28, 2003
2.014
0
Visit site
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis III
  • War of the Roses
  • Sengoku
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
Right....unfortunate, the engine restrictions.

So if the AI picks choice A all the time, choice B would be a waste of code wouldnt it? No one in their right mind would opt for it since its unambigiously worse than A in strategic terms.....

Stephen T and others what do you think? Keep the "redundant code" or scrap it?

A justification for the latter could be that Moltke's changes were so great they could not be undone at the 11th hour?
 

Johan Elisson

ex-Great War[lord]
87 Badges
Apr 11, 2002
1.160
0
www.elisson.eu
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
Originally posted by ptan54
Right....unfortunate, the engine restrictions.

So if the AI picks choice A all the time, choice B would be a waste of code wouldnt it? No one in their right mind would opt for it since its unambigiously worse than A in strategic terms.....

Stephen T and others what do you think? Keep the "redundant code" or scrap it?

A justification for the latter could be that Moltke's changes were so great they could not be undone at the 11th hour?

Well, the AI isn't always picking action a, just 89.4 % of the times. :D ;)

With two choises, action a is picked 94.4 % of the time, and action b 5.6 %. With three choises, action a gets picked 89.4 % and action b and c has a chance of 5.3 % each. With four choises, action a has a chance of 85 %, while the three others have 5 % each.

/Johan
 

StephenT

OT iconoclast
89 Badges
Mar 10, 2001
8.721
317
  • Age of Wonders II
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Sengoku
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • March of the Eagles
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Cities in Motion
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Deus Vult
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Age of Wonders
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
I go away to work for a day and find about a dozen new posts in this thread...:eek:

The reason why I gave Germany a 10% dissent hit is because, as I understand it, this translates directly to a 10% reduction in their units' combat strength (or is it organisation?). In other words, it is here being used to simulate army morale, not civilian opinion.

It also wasn't intended as a "punishment" to the player for making the "wrong choice" - it represents an actual historical limitation on German freedom of action.

To quote Moltke:
"Your Majesty, it cannot be done. The deployment of millions cannot be improvised. If Your Majesty insists on leading the whole army to the East it will not be an army ready for battle but a disorganised mob of armed men with no arrangements for supply. Those arrangements took a whole year of intricate labor to complete."

For similar reasons I wouldn't be happy about adding to infrastructure near the Netherlands if option b is chosen. It takes longer than a day or two to build a railway line! Quite honestly, I don't think there should be any benefits to Germany for choosing this option, except that they don't need to spend DI on another declaration of war. It's simply there to give a 5% chance of something ahistorical happening, and keeping things interesting. Alternatively, drop the choice and leave it to Germany to choose whether to declare war on the Netherlands (I've noticed that in about half my test games Germany does do this anyway).
 

Allenby

Custom User Title
8 Badges
Apr 4, 2003
7.170
5
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Hearts of Iron II: Beta
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
I think the 10% dissent increase is a little too much, if one considers that a country can be defeated with a dissent rating of 35% combined with low manpower. Furthermore, any erosion of the fighting effectiveness of divisions should really only effect those involved in the sudden change of plan - those in Western and Eastern Germany. Yet by increasing dissent, the fighting capabilities of all of Germany's units are unfairly affected, whether it be a cruiser in China or colonial troops in Tanganyika. Besides, if the sudden change in plan turns the German army into a 'disorganised mob', then surely the dissent increase should be much higher anyway?

I agree that suddently increasing infrastructure would probably be a tad unrealistic - if anything, putting more trains on the tracks would clog things up rather than make the movement of men quicker and more efficient.

The loss of supplies as well as some leaders and General von Moltke is good enough, in my opinion, to simulate the consequences of not implementing the Schlieffen Plan.
 

ptan54

General
32 Badges
Sep 28, 2003
2.014
0
Visit site
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis III
  • War of the Roses
  • Sengoku
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
10% is definitely too much, I say 5%. This would have negligible impact on the colonial troops.

If we are to simulate Moltke's statement, then as Allenby said, we'd have to make German org - 50% or something.

Perhaps there's a way to make them take a hit for a short time, say 2 weeks?

Infra is unrealistic, but it was I think suggested out of gameplay effects to get the German army moving quicker.

As for event b, up to Johan.

Oh, are we going to have this event for the Austrians:

Gasp shock horror we lost all our crack troops after Brusilov (triggered by loss of Lvov and key provinces in Hungary), +10 dissent, trigger future nationalist uprising events?
 
Last edited:

Allenby

Custom User Title
8 Badges
Apr 4, 2003
7.170
5
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Hearts of Iron II: Beta
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
Originally posted by ptan54
Infra is unrealistic, but it was I think suggested out of gameplay effects to get the German army moving quicker.

More trains = slower movement, surely?

Originally posted by ptan54
Oh, are we going to have this event for the Austrians:

Gasp shock horror we lost all our crack troops after Brusilov (triggered by loss of Lvov and key provinces in Hungary), +10 dissent, trigger future nationalist uprising events?

That sounds like unnecessary interference in the progress of the game - if we were to have that then we'd have to have similar events where various armies lost the best elements of their forces: we'd need one to simulate First Ypres for the British, the Somme for the Germans, Gallipoli for the Turks etc.