Central-Eastern Europe(POL,LIT,PRU,LAT,etc)

[Kasperus]

But Polish calvinists were in first place nobles and there were certainly a bunch of these in Podlasia (nobles that is)

 

[Woreczko]

Originally posted by vilkouak
Only Podlasia turning reformed seems unlikely there. No big cities, no strong merchants, Lublin of Polish and Jewish style, Zamosc ruled by one of the traditional catholic family. I'd rather put Kujawy there.

In this mod Posen is supposed to represent western Wielkopolska, while Wielkopolska represents "the middle", i.e. Kujawy, Leczyca, Sieradz, Kalisz, etc. I thought that Western Wielkopolska was rather lutheran (especially Posen) than reformed. After "Middle Poland" and Malopolska the third prov to turn reformed would be Podlasia in my opinion, this is ahistorical choice after all.

My biggest concern was whether Reformation was deep enough in this provs to change their religion? As Kasperus posted, it were mainly nobles, who changed their confession, especially regarding calvinism.

 

[unmerged(6881)]

I would rather say that first Polish calvinists were rich nobles/magnates like Radziwill or Leszczynski, who were followed by their clients (Thus in Leszno region many nobles turned reformed too). Like I posted, important families on Podlasia remained catholic, so it is highly unlikey to convert that province.

EDIT: Agree that Western Wielkopolska were rather protestant than reformed and I don't think that reformed religion was an option in any province of Poland. It was an elite of magnates followed by some oftheir clients who converted but no mass conversion happened ever. On the other hand it was possible as Leszno area shwoing us (the area was dominated by Leszczynski family. Cause we,ve got the game of possibility then basing on the triggers, some provs might turn reformed.

 

[Kasperus]

But you are playing here with alternative history so even while representing calvinist movement in Poland with reformed provinces would be normally slightly overrating the reality, in case that you chose to extensively tolerate it then area`s as malopolska and podlasia where reformed movement (according to my sources and my interpretation what these provinces in the game stand for in irl) was relatively stronger than somewhere else in Poland and thus in case of alternative choice the reformed representation of these territories seems certainly a good possibility to me.
But this is just my opinion

 

[unmerged(6881)]

Good triggers are the key.
I bet you are using the map here . Indeed terrains north of Lublin up to Brest Litovsk were influenced by calvinism but none of the magantes converted. The map is showing the areas influenced, that's true but it is not saying that calvinism was popular in the area for a very short time. Short enough to call it a temporary fashion. I would choose Kujawy, Wielkopolska, Malopolska rather than Podlasia were magnates converted but it is up to Woreczko and his own mod. When we reach it on PL thread, then a voting will be probably held to make everyone happy .

 

[Woreczko]

Here is what I`ve finally (?) decided:

"Wave of Protestantism"
trigger: Innovative = 6
date: 1530
1)Tolerate
- Posen turn protestant
- set_flag religious_tolerance
2)Encourage and change state religion
- Posen, Wielkopolska turn protestant
- set_flag religious tolerance
- religion: protestant
3)Crush the heretics
- No changes, only Danzig is protestant

"Wave of Calvinism"
trigger: innovative 6, relious tolerance flag
date 1550
1) Tolerate
- Malopolska turn reformed
2) Change state religion
- Wielkopolska, Malopolska turn reformed
- religion: calvinism
3) Crush it
- clear flag religious_tolerance

Malopolska is turning reformed mainly to mark existence of calvinism in whole Poland, rather than to indicate particular strength of calvinism in this prov. That way AI shouldn`t change state religion from catholic also (making historical choices), at least I hope it won`t.

Thank you for your comments and sorry for messing up...
...just one more question :
What triggers do you have on mind, Vilkouak?

 

[unmerged(6881)]

Originally posted by Woreczko


Thank you for your comments and sorry for messing up...
...just one more question :
What triggers do you have on mind, Vilkouak?

More innovativeness. decentralization added.

 

[Lucellus]

Orthodox religion

I wonder if Lithuania / Poland pocess Ruthenian cilture how will you prevent all orthodox provinces from turning into catholic - either by random events or by conversions?

Even today many of this lands are inhabited by the orthodox and historically weren't converted for hundreds of years???


(BTW the same question apllies for OE converting greek and salvonic provinces to sunni.... )