Censored leaders for North American release?

[Sturmwrath231]

Just curious...is the Region 1 release of AoD going to have the main NSDAP leaders actually physically removed and/or renamed? For example, will Goering still be head of air wing or will he be replaced by "Mr.X"? I can understand censorship for approval of sale in Germany but I think the majority of gamers in other regions like history to remain as authentic as possible.

 

[Dichromate]

AFAIK it isn't actually required to remove them even in Germany.

 

[Mrdie]

Why would they be censored in North America?

 

[Tormentor]

I think there will be the same kind of censorship we saw in hoi2. So there will be hitler and goering but not the svastika, gulag, shoah...

 

[Mattabesta]

I think there is mention of gulags there isn't any law against naming them in Russia.

 

[Inner Circle]

If AoD has the same censorship like HoI2, e.g. Albert Hiller instead of Adolf Hitler, then this sucks...

I live in Germany and at least you can see once or twice in a week a documentation of the 3rd Reich in german TV where you can see Hitler & Co. and the "forbidden" symbol.
So renaming and removing these ministers in AoD would be a step backwards...

 

[Flashgordon]

If AoD has the same censorship like HoI2, e.g. Albert Hiller instead of Adolf Hitler, then this sucks...

I live in Germany and at least you can see once or twice in a week a documentation of the 3rd Reich in german TV where you can see Hitler & Co. and the "forbidden" symbol.
So renaming and removing these ministers in AoD would be a step backwards...

+1 Definitly!

 

[HisMajestyBOB]

I think there is mention of gulags there isn't any law against naming them in Russia.

Yeah, but Paradox generally doesn't want to model war crimes and crimes against humanity in their games. For understandable reasons.

 

[Lennartos]

I live in Germany and at least you can see once or twice in a week a documentation of the 3rd Reich in german TV where you can see Hitler & Co. and the "forbidden" symbol.
So renaming and removing these ministers in AoD would be a step backwards...

The trouble is only the german law. ( as far as i have been informed ) So if you live outside of germany you should not have any trouble with it.

By the law only TV/Cinema has the right to show swastikas and everything related to WW2 as it can go under a "historical" clausule.
Any game with image references / images to promonent Nazis (like adolf "hiller") and swastikas would with a very high propablility be denied a USK-rating and thereafter be banned from beeing sold in the german market.

EDIT:
Actually it seems this has been eased up a bit after 2003...
Swastikas are still a big no-no, but i cannot see a law agains having "gearing" and "hiller" in the game.
Any germans with knowledge of the new system care to give a update here?

 

[Flashgordon]

The trouble is only the german law. ( as far as i have been informed ) So if you live outside of germany you should not have any trouble with it.

By the law only TV/Cinema has the right to show swastikas and everything related to WW2 as it can go under a "historical" clausule.
Any game with image references / images to promonent Nazis (like adolf "hiller") and swastikas would with a very high propablility be denied a USK-rating and thereafter be banned from beeing sold in the german market.

Thats only partly true. Swastikas would get you in trouble but taking Hitler and co instead of Hiller would be no problem in Germany. The only problem that could appear is to receive ab USK-rating (worst case only for people over 18). But since AOD is only avaible via download even that wouldnt be a problem.

And the decision not to take swastikas is AFAIK a Paradox decision for the whole world.

So there is no reason for any censorship (as long as you dont use swastikas).

 

[Lennartos]

Thats only partly true. Swastikas would get you in trouble but taking Hitler and co instead of Hiller would be no problem in Germany. The only problem that could appear is to receive ab USK-rating (worst case only for people over 18). But since AOD is only avaible via download even that wouldnt be a problem.

And the decision not to take swastikas is AFAIK a Paradox decision for the whole world.

So there is no reason for any censorship (as long as you dont use swastikas).

So what you are saying is that naming and showing Hitler & Co is legal,, as long as you dont use the ornaments.
Same here:

Just to make things clear: it´s against the law to show pictures of Hitler in Germany when it´s not related to some scientific or historical work. There are still some groups in Germany that wish to revive the Nazi ideology and they are somewhat worshipping pictures of AH. I´m not commenting on whether it´s good or reasonable, it´s just a matter of fact that those pictures and names in games are not allowed in Germany.

Edit: Just tried to look up the law (§§11, 86, 86a StGB). It´s not explicitly forbidden to use pictures of AH, only pictures of flags, insignia, emblems, parts of uniforms, slogans, and forms of greeting that are related to Nazis. But there´s always a risk of being interpreted in the wrong way (e.g. "propaganda against liberal-democratic foundations") which could result in the ban of AoD from the German market.

Thats the same law i read before.
Swastikas forbidden, rest is grey...
As you actually could play with Germany and WIN WW2, that would be a dark gray area.

 

[unmerged(95506)]

I live in Germany, and the HoI 2 which I have bought from Gamersgate included Hitler, in contrast to the retail version of HoI 2 distributed in stores. Although Gamersgate also can make distinctions based on customer's location, they apparently have chosen to distribute only one version of HoI 2; I don't know what they did for HoI 3.

 

[Mrdie]

I personally don't mind the swastika not being in since it's odd for a non-fascist German Government to have it flying around. The Empire flag is IMO better due to its general nature.

Of course if flag changing à la Victoria is in, then I wouldn't mind the swastika.

 

[Flashgordon]

So what you are saying is that naming and showing Hitler & Co is legal,, as long as you dont use the ornaments.

Exactly.

And the worst thing that could happen (if you would use swastikas) is IMO that the game will be "indiziert" (NOT banned) which means that the game is only avaible for persons over 18 and you arent allowed to advertise it. But since PI wont advertise it eather and it will only be downloadable you didnt have to care even about that.

 

[ve3609]

That would blow and I'd probably modd the right names in there.

 

[Blecky]

Exactly.

And the worst thing that could happen (if you would use swastikas) is IMO that the game will be "indiziert" (NOT banned) which means that the game is only avaible for persons over 18 and you arent allowed to advertise it. But since PI wont advertise it eather and it will only be downloadable you didnt have to care even about that.

That´s not quite true. In § 86a StGB they say if you use those characteristic markings you could be either imprisoned for up to three years or a fine will be imposed on you. The same is true if you use markings that are even similar to those markings. This means if swasticas or even those eagles are included in the game there would be a high probability it will be removed from the German market.

 

[trekaddict]

I'll probably buy the UK version through a friend I have there. Yay for pay-pal.

 

[PanzerMan7]

ill be happy to upload the ministers and leaders for any german players if they want.

 

[Talar]

I just have a feeling the <18 audience for this game is probably not a big loss in sales.

While I would like the game as historical as possible I would recommend taking the safe route if you are at all unsure. Unless you are allowed access to computers and your programming tools in german prison, in that case please go ahead (worst case would mean 3 years of uninterrupted development time for the next version)

But "Hiller" - are you germans really serious? Sounds like an idea right out of Harry Potter so I think you should name him Voldemort in the german version.

 

[Flashgordon]

That´s not quite true. In § 86a StGB they say if you use those characteristic markings you could be either imprisoned for up to three years or a fine will be imposed on you. The same is true if you use markings that are even similar to those markings. This means if swasticas or even those eagles are included in the game there would be a high probability it will be removed from the German market.

Ok, we are both partly right I am unsure about the swastika you could be right here.

But with the Eagle (WITHOUT swastika of course) and those Hillers, Hitlers and Voldemorts its sure they are ok to use. I know a couple of games that use those eagles or contain Hitler and are for sale in germany.

Even if i am wrong AOD will be only avaible on GG, Steam and co. And NOT in german stores so forget about this issue, i am sure swastikas wont be inlcuded.