Haven't played in a while, heard that Hellenic paganism got some events with the new DLC. Did Celtic paganism ever get put in or no?
Celtic paganism?
- Thread starter anomanderus
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Nope it hasn't. There's a mod called Ancient Religions Reborn that implements it, but I think you are right, now that they have implemented a way to revive Hellenism, there's nothing against a revival of Celtic or Egyptian Paganism either.
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Egyptian paganism would be so cool. Though coptic christianity needs to be made justice.
Egyptian paganism has a realistic revival outlook in the form of the (yet unrepresented) Beja, a Cushitic group (related closely to Somalis, more distantly to other Afro-Asiatic populations eg Arabs, Jews, Egyptians, Ethiopians, Berbers, Hausa) native to what's Nubia in the game. Cushitic paganism is just about identical to Egyptian paganism, with early medieval writers able to draw clear references to the Beja worship and that of the ancient Egyptians. This shouldn't come as a surprise, seeing as the "Nubian Pharaohs" were in reality Cushites, and the famous Kingdom of Kush was, likewise, Cushitic. The Nubian migration and/or dominance to/in the region is a later thing, taking off by the middle ages where Cushitic groups had previously ruled. The Beja are basically what remains, though even in Somali folklore can references be found (eg a falcon god named "Huur", cf. Middle Egyptian "Haru" and Coptic "Hor"). The Berbers, as near as can be told, followed a similar pantheon in preislamic days, and preislamic Berbers persist in some places on the map. Together, the Berbers and Beja could have a "North African" pagan religion centering around figures like Neith (Tanit), Amun (Ammon/Amani), and Horus (Huur)
Celtic paganism is a bit harder to justify. Some legends persist of witch-doctors living as hermits in the woods, which is slightly reflected by the witches in Macbeth. However, inspiration would be more likely to come from a "studying the classics" type decision, since pre-Christian legends and bardship remained quite popular throughout the Middle Ages - to such an extent that the majority of our knowledge of Celtic mythology originates from medieval Irish and Welsh monks.
Celtic paganism is a bit harder to justify. Some legends persist of witch-doctors living as hermits in the woods, which is slightly reflected by the witches in Macbeth. However, inspiration would be more likely to come from a "studying the classics" type decision, since pre-Christian legends and bardship remained quite popular throughout the Middle Ages - to such an extent that the majority of our knowledge of Celtic mythology originates from medieval Irish and Welsh monks.
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I'm all for more pagan religions being included in the game, but at the same time I can't help but think of the old children's book "If You Give A Mouse A Cookie...."
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It would be fun if there were at least a crypto-Celtic leader someone, maybe on one of the Scottish islands. Unfortunately, in truth, Celtic Paganism had long died out by 769, just like Hellenism.
I have suggested this before...
Paradox/CK2 clearly has a "template" for defensive pagans. I mean, what differences is there between Romova, Suomonusko, Slavic and African except the names of the gods and some flavour? This would make a defensive pagan religion very easy to add, would it not.
However... The little I know about Celtic´s.. It´s not very defensive
The offensive pagans are more differentiated, Tengri and Germanic. The third one... Aztec, maybe might serve as a template?
The main question is... Was Celtic pagansim still a thing in the 769 bookmark?
Paradox/CK2 clearly has a "template" for defensive pagans. I mean, what differences is there between Romova, Suomonusko, Slavic and African except the names of the gods and some flavour? This would make a defensive pagan religion very easy to add, would it not.
However... The little I know about Celtic´s.. It´s not very defensive
The offensive pagans are more differentiated, Tengri and Germanic. The third one... Aztec, maybe might serve as a template?
The main question is... Was Celtic pagansim still a thing in the 769 bookmark?
I have been thinking about this for a while as well. Yes, it is a long shot and it doesn't make sense historically. But then again, Hellenic paganism revival makes no sense whatsoever either, and that is possible nowadays.
So I don't see why not Celtic.
So I don't see why not Celtic.
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It wasn't, but then again neither was Hellenic.I have suggested this before...
Paradox/CK2 clearly has a "template" for defensive pagans. I mean, what differences is there between Romova, Suomonusko, Slavic and African except the names of the gods and some flavour? This would make a defensive pagan religion very easy to add, would it not.
However... The little I know about Celtic´s.. It´s not very defensive
The offensive pagans are more differentiated, Tengri and Germanic. The third one... Aztec, maybe might serve as a template?
The main question is... Was Celtic pagansim still a thing in the 769 bookmark?
Me niether but is "Why not?" the right question to ask?
I would like an ability to "revive" any dead or fabricated pagan religion, from a template like mentioned above. A "Religion Customization" DLC.
I won't object to adding this or that new religion, but that, arguing that B should be added because A raises the question of why we shouldn't also add C, D, E, and F because A exists. Basque paganism or Celtic Christianity (Ireland wasn't subjected to Papal authority until the 12th century) have a better argument for existing in-game than Celtic paganism, which was both long dead by the 769 start date, and very poorly recorded.
True Egyptian Paganism largely died out a long time before 769, previously the territory was ruled by the Muslim Caliphates, the Byzantine Orthodox Christians, Roman Christians, Roman Hellenistics, Greek Hellenistics, and Egypt historically had a lot of Persian and foreign conquerors before Alexander the Great.
Celtic, (British Isles), Paganism largely died out during the Anglo-Saxon invasions to Ireland.
Celtic, (British Isles), Paganism largely died out during the Anglo-Saxon invasions to Ireland.
But those three groups generally did nothing to root out any native religions... When Alexander defeated the Persians and took possession of Egypt, he was celebrated as the SOn of Ra and beloved by Amun.
Sure there was some religious syncretism in the Hellenic and Roman eras but that doesn't mean "true" Egyptian Paganism (whatever you mean by that) disappeared before Christianization...
Right, and Hellenism was dead too but in game can be revived by event. Which is the point of me asking "can you revive Celtic paganism?".
In my games if I am elsewhere the British Isles tend to be a bordergore nightmare, so I'm for whatever sorts that out. Some pagan conquest casus belli is definitely along the right lines.
If you're not sure about it, best consult your friendly neighbourhood druid.
If you're not sure about it, best consult your friendly neighbourhood druid.
Hellenism wasn't dead. They still wre sources about it and some small groups did survived. Also there were historical guys who tried to revive Hellenic religion during the middle ages. It's not comparable.
Meh, especially if starting in the earlier starts; england/scotland/ireland are just so *safe* without aztec invasion
Like you get the occasional Norse raiders, but the invasions rarely work out because of so many small realms piling onto the defense
Would be interesting to have a northwestern-european pagan religion, if only as something the player can adopt, or occasionally cause trouble when christian MA is low (and ireland/scotland are still tribal) and the player tries to stay christian.
But yeah, we really need a midsouth (egypt and Arabian peninsula) and northwestern pagan religion, even if not on-map, be adoptable to try and shake up these regions with large, homogenous religious affiliations. Just becomes really static with no good way to break it up
Like you get the occasional Norse raiders, but the invasions rarely work out because of so many small realms piling onto the defense
Would be interesting to have a northwestern-european pagan religion, if only as something the player can adopt, or occasionally cause trouble when christian MA is low (and ireland/scotland are still tribal) and the player tries to stay christian.
But yeah, we really need a midsouth (egypt and Arabian peninsula) and northwestern pagan religion, even if not on-map, be adoptable to try and shake up these regions with large, homogenous religious affiliations. Just becomes really static with no good way to break it up
oh my god! I was gonna say "hellenic got events because there is a single province with helenic religion at start of game" but when you said it I was like "YES PLS I WANT TO PLAY IT AND DECLARE MYSELF AS AMON'RA!"
what will be special doctorine?
Astrology+Divine marriage?