And that,sir, is something that's already depicted with the new system.Decreasing autonomy generates massive revolt risk.
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Celestial Empire means that a province can never be below 50% autonomy.WHAT?
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I think we should just take China out of the game and replace it with a Heavenly Incan Empire. Would be quite interesting.
To be fair, I think that the reason that Japan has turbodiscipline is because the devs missed a line when they were halving discipline numbers across the board.
And that's on Groogy and whoever may be working with him on the CK2 -> EU4 converter, which I don't think has been updated in quite a while.
I already did. I'll reiterate what I've said. No artificial restrictions to Ming. Give massive attrition rates for non-nomad armies in areas like Mongolia,Manchuria and Xianjiang to simulate how nomads are better at fighting in these places which are essentially deserts or steppes.Give massive attrition rates for non-native south East Asian countries to simulate tropical diseases like malaria. Give OP national ideas to Mongols,Oirats,Uighurs and the Manchus,such as 20% discipline and extra shock as well as manoeuvre for their leaders. They did do some really OP things in the fight against the Ming Dynasty.
And then everyone picks the invaders, conquers the bajeezus out of Ming and uses the epic resources they gain to subjugate the entire world in short order with their uber armies.
Where do your preconceptions about Mongol "Klingon" Shock troops come from? It is common knowledge that the Manchu did not take over the government by having a superior military. They usurped the government when invited to help quell the Zicheng rebel take over of Beijing. They continued the imperial system since China could not be 'conquered' it had to be manipulated into believing the Qing were saviors. Conquest and coups are very different from each other.
10% is nothing for a country on their home provinces. Mandate of Heaven + legitimacy + true faith + Celestial empire is -14% RR right at the start of the game, not even counting -rr from stability, religious and humanism ideas, and theologians (another -9%). If you really feel like it, you can get even more through policies (-6%). -29% RR before any decisions or events.
Attrition modifiers would hurt only the AI as they're bad at conserving manpower. Unless the factor is outrageous and broken even more than the current faction modifiers, it would be only a temporary slow. It is far easier to give a single country negative modifiers and a try to work around the faction system than rewrite the AI to balance a single country.
In EU4 you are an omnipotent god king that can correct any country's historical mistakes and get the whole nation to go along with your plans instantly. There is simply no feasible way to balance the bureaucracy and inwardness of China combined with their latent power within the confines of the game without modifiers.
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Mongol "Klingon" Shock Troops:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tumu_Crisis
As for the Manchu, their Eight Banner Army was quite effective before going into disuse and as a result decline.
There are no records as to how many Mongol troops there were and is fiercely debated in academics. Also, the Mongols defeated the 500,000...not killed 500,000...verbiage means a lot.
The main reason the expedition force lost men was from the cunning strategy of the Mongol general who destroyed the Ming supply train which seals the fate of any enormous army.
Attrition, fatigue, very bad movement decisions and morale decline from the attack on their rearguard gave the Mongols a victory. None of this is cause for a horde buff in EU4. History is filled with smart strategy and luck winning over insurmountable odds. Attrition being one of the major factors in most large army defeats.
I would definitely welcome more attrition damage in the game for large armies. The logistics in EU4 during this time frame are laughable as is.
Hordes are getting nerfed with the autonomy floor idiocy and in their case it's a lot more questionable unless they *do* get buffed. They've been baselessly nerfed in virtually every patch, aside from the early ones when they actually were too strong.
> Also, the Mongols defeated the 500,000...not killed 500,000...
>verbiage means a lot.
Indeed it is:
>A battle ensued between the disorganized Chinese army and the advance guard of Esen's army (Esen was not at the battle). The Chinese army basically dissolved and was almost annihilated. The Mongols captured a huge quantity of arms and armour while killing most of the Chinese troops. All the high-ranking Chinese generals and court officials were killed.
>The Mongol victory was won by an advance guard of perhaps as few as 5,000 cavalry.
tldr:
>The Mongols ... killing most of the Chinese troops.
>The Mongol victory was won by an advance guard of perhaps as few as 5,000 cavalry.
Just nitpicking.
>verbiage means a lot.
Indeed it is:
>A battle ensued between the disorganized Chinese army and the advance guard of Esen's army (Esen was not at the battle). The Chinese army basically dissolved and was almost annihilated. The Mongols captured a huge quantity of arms and armour while killing most of the Chinese troops. All the high-ranking Chinese generals and court officials were killed.
>The Mongol victory was won by an advance guard of perhaps as few as 5,000 cavalry.
tldr:
>The Mongols ... killing most of the Chinese troops.
>The Mongol victory was won by an advance guard of perhaps as few as 5,000 cavalry.
Just nitpicking.
Look, I'm a fan of the Hordes too (just read a nice trilogy about Ghengis Khan and his successors), but every single civilization in the world can show off some ridiculous defeats. I've got a book over here which does nothing but analyse the biggest military mistakes in European history. And believe me: even though it's just a small collection, there's a serious number of absolutely pathetic battles in there. Considering Ming is being beaten up by the Hordes all the time in EU4 anyway, I don't think they've to be buffed significantly.
Except Ming consistently failed to wipe out these hordes despite significant resources spent to destroy them. Even under the extremely able Yongle Emperor, who was pretty much a military genius, Ming only achieved limited success against these hordes.
Yeah, as did everyone else. Russia failed for decades if not centuries and all major Empires have been repeatedly beaten up by Hordes throughout history.
Which means hordes were op as f#$k,especially the Manchus.People have to realize that the Manchus didn't just win because of Shanhai pass being opened. It was an important event, but they have been consistently winning and beating much larger Ming armies before then.Ming virtually had to abandon all territory north of Shanhai pass years before it was opened.
The new ming would be far far stronger than Muscovy if they aren't shackled by modifiers. So if the hordes can beat down Ming, wouldn't they obliterate Russia as well?
In the end you still have to give arbitrary limitations to Ming.
I am of course talking about hordes near China. There's also the fact that Russia has eastern tech, which is far superior to Chinese tech.They are also able to westernize far easier.
Its irrelevant, in the earlier years Ming can still afford good advisors, can keep up decently with tech.
Later, the hordes would have fallen far behind, so tech doesn't matter against them anymore.
The little tech advantage russia does have, does not negate the massive difference in base-tax and manpower compared to the humongous ming.
No amount of buffs given to the hordes is going to be enough to conquer an unshackled ming, while not breaking the entire game's balance at the same time.
And no, you can't just restrict it to 'hordes near china', they'll just gobble up the western hordes with ease since horde-horde casus belli is incredibly strong. Then they'll be bordering russia again, which would be weaker than a unshackled Ming.
Well the old problem remains if for example Japan or Spain takes huge junk of China they suddenly have very rich and manpower plenty provinces Ming never had. And for Manchus why should they form Qing dynasty if they got crappy Celestial Empire?
Doesen't matter. Buff the Oirats so they can resist ming? They'll just gobble up the western hordes instead.