Cavalry completely useless in the last tech level 32.

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unmerged(26764)

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Mar 14, 2004
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This is core of the problem:

The warfare of this period was essentially a big game of "rock, paper, scissors." Infantry, when correctly massed, ripped apart cavalry. Cavalry destroyed artillery. And artillery destroyed infantry.

(In reality, it was a little more complicated because massed infantry killed cavalry while cavalry killed dispersed infantry. Artillery killed massed infantry and did less well against dispersed infantry. So the infantry had a choice of either repelling cavalry charges and allowing artillery to quickly kill everyone, or spreading out to avoid artillery fire and allowing a cavalry charge to kill everyone. But the "rock paper scissors" idea is close enough).

What this means is the cavalry needs a bonus to killing artillery if it can break through to the second rank. A hole in the line should allow cavalry to effectively run up the back rank destroying all the artillery. It probably also needs to give a combat bonus to adjacent infantry the way artillery gives a bonus to infantry in front of it. This would make cavalry very useful for exploiting certain situations. Then you'd want more of it.

But if you did this you would also want cavalry to be spread throughout the line. I hate how the current system always fills in the entire line. There ought to be holes that develop that cavalry can then exploit.

But short of something like this -- things cav is good at that isn't just flanking on the edge of the line-- no one is going to build more than enough to stick on the flank. The game has limited its use to the 4 or 6 flanks spots. So that's all anyone is going to build.
 

TheMeInTeam

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But short of something like this -- things cav is good at that isn't just flanking on the edge of the line-- no one is going to build more than enough to stick on the flank. The game has limited its use to the 4 or 6 flanks spots. So that's all anyone is going to build.

In-game, the maneuver is relevant mid-battle. Bring in a half-row of cavalry to reinforce a battle mid way through and watch what happens.
 

TheMeInTeam

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So you're saying to keep a separate cavalry-only army in an adjacent province to bring in to major battles?

Yes, that is what I'm saying. Here is why:

1. Maneuver only applies if your opponent is not as wide as your combat width.
2. Maneuver takes a malus if a unit is damaged, and this is rounded down.

Late in the game, cavalry maneuver (base 2) has been increased markedly from tech. Bringing them in at full morale + regiment strength means they can do the maximum amount of damage. Better still, you avoid having them in there during the initial fire phases + combat where both sides are at max width, where they are inferior.

It's a lot of micro though, so it's really an end-game battle thing. Early on fights between armies of max width is something either side would prefer to avoid, because they're expensive in both manpower and money (which is still scarce at that point) and slows down blobbing progress.

The maneuver concept is, however, how I stayed Nomad and used Kazan to not just defeat, but DESTROY western units via using their cores to build the 55 pip cavalry. Any time I could catch a stack out at <40 size, I would jump it with huge #cavalry and arty. Considering that despite being Nomad I had full aristocratic + quality while at tech 31, hitting Britain on my own plains or desert with that while they didn't have full combat width turned the affair into a massacre. I actually had more combat bonuses in my favor due to the shock bonus on home plains/desert, 30% cavalry bonus, and 21% discipline from quality + administrative. Cavalry in this situation most definitely did not suck, but it's a unique one. Normally, you want to use it much more sparingly.
 

Golladan

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I do not get this. Technology tab clearly says max is 25, there really cannot be anything to missunderstand there unless the page is wrong.
In the screen that shows the battle, on the right side around the middle, there is a circle with a horizontal double-headed arrow. Point to it.