Catholic nation forming Italy still keep the negative modifier

[Inyx]

I was playing in a game as Venice and eventually decided to take Rome from the Pope and form Italy. However I was still Catholic and even though forming Italy requires Rome I did not get rid of the new Modifier which gives -10 papal influence and -1 diplomatic reputation, this caused me to have a maximum yearly papal influence of -2 and encourages the player to never form italy if you haven't converted away from Catholic.

This just seems wrong and needs to be looked over.

 

[Mikalos]

im not sure what you want it to do instead

you just invaded and forced the pope out of Rome, which he, through some forged documents and a good thousand or so years of owning, owned. The guy who historically did this? Excommunicated.

It doesnt matter if you stay Catholic, you just defeated the entire purpose of being it by overthrowing the popes claim on roma

 

[klingonadmiral]

See the bright side: For all the italian states with bonuses towards papal influence the italian idea set became slightly more desirable.

 

[VampireBoot]

Yeah, this is pretty annoying. While the penalty to Italy makes some real world sense, in gameplay terms it just means that every player-formed Italy has strong incentive to convert to Protestant or Reformed, which is more ahistoric than just making Italy an exception to the penalty.

 

[LanMisa]

Can't you just sell Rome back to the Pope and the modifier disappears?

 

[Inyx]

The thing is though that why should I have to give up Rome once I create Italy.
As I see it one of two things need to happen, either Rome isn't required to form Italy (which I find stupid) or the debuff "the occupation of Rome" disapears for the nation that forms Italy.
It is not the debuff in itself that I have a problem with , just the fact that a nation that requires the specified province still recives it.

 

[grommile]

I would endorse a mechanism for removing the penalty.

It should not be an automatic trivial thing that you get just for forming Italy; you should have to incur some form of cost or inconvenience.

 

[BaZERGer]

Perhaps they could remove the papal influence penalty, and just have the event that denies them the province cause excommunication, which will at most last for one ruler's lifetime.

 

[lordvagrant]

There is also the additional penalty of denying the Pope Rome when he asks for land.

 

[McCoy1]

The best way I can think of addressing this issue is the formation of the Vatican City, perhaps subtracting a small amount of base tax from Roma, giving a permanent malus to relations with the Pope, and a small penalty to Papal Influence (Maybe around -1,-2 per year?) but still allowing you to remain Catholic and be a player in the Curia provided you grow to be strong enough.

 

[Johan]

Changing it to not be a penalty for unified ITA in 1.10

 

[Inyx]

Thank you Johan, I'm pleased to hear that this is not intended.

 

[mudcrabmerchant]

Disappointed. It's understandable, given that a proper in-between mechanic would take work that could be devoted to something else... but IMO it'd be better to just exempt Rome from the requirements to form Italy if you are Catholic. The historical, pre-Napoleonic kingdoms of Italy always had the Pope in the City.

 

[SignedName]

There should be a way to diplo-annex the Papal States- if you have an alliance with them and are Papal Controller then you should be able to form Italy and inherit the Papal State.

 

[magnusvejby]

The best way I can think of addressing this issue is the formation of the Vatican City, perhaps subtracting a small amount of base tax from Roma, giving a permanent malus to relations with the Pope, and a small penalty to Papal Influence (Maybe around -1,-2 per year?) but still allowing you to remain Catholic and be a player in the Curia provided you grow to be strong enough.

+1

 

[Labrynian Rebel]

Just allow Italy to enact a "Lateran Treaty" decision that gets rid of a bit of basetax in Roma and makes you pay a lum sum as "compensation" for the Pope's lost territories, and boom, done.

 

[Andrzej2]

Changing it to not be a penalty for unified ITA in 1.10

Why? Catholic Church haven't acknowledged italian occupation of Rome until 1929 r. Penalty should still be there. Annexation of Papal State was only possible in era of liberalism, secularism and revolution. In Eu4 timeframe annexation of Patrimonium Sancti Petri should be extremly difficult and have grave consequences.

Instead of removing this penalty just remove requirement to have Rome to form Italy. Historically both medieval and napoleonic kingdom of Italy were without Rome, Naples and Sicily. Also United Italy was created in 1861 and had capital in Florence not Rome! Rome was conquered in different war in 1870. So there is no reason why forming Italy should require Rome. Just remove this requirement and add decision to move capital to Rome for Italy.

 

[Chidori]

Yea, i think remove this Trigger is stupid ideea.

 

[Incompetent]

I think there also needs to be a way for the Holy See to exist as a diplomatic entity even if the Papal State doesn't exist (it can happen if Rome is owned by a non-Catholic and all the theocracies are killed off). No Papal State causes problems with the Curia system and various other things that are supposed to depend on your relations with the Pope.

 

[moscal]

Why? Catholic Church haven't acknowledged italian occupation of Rome until 1929 r. Penalty should still be there. Annexation of Papal State was only possible in era of liberalism, secularism and revolution. In Eu4 timeframe annexation of Patrimonium Sancti Petri should be extremly difficult and have grave consequences.

Instead of removing this penalty just remove requirement to have Rome to form Italy. Historically both medieval and napoleonic kingdom of Italy were without Rome, Naples and Sicily. Also United Italy was created in 1861 and had capital in Florence not Rome! Rome was conquered in different war in 1870. So there is no reason why forming Italy should require Rome. Just remove this requirement and add decision to move capital to Rome for Italy.

+1