Categorising countries.

[Heruure]

So, if you were to categorise countries into Minor Minors, Major Minors, Minor Majors and Major Majors, how would you place countries?
There is so much talk about the possibilities on countries and there are some very big differences between say Belgium and China despite both being minors and between Italy and USA despite both being majors.
I think it would be something like this for example, didnt take much time to look into the real strength of each country, do dont rage at me for forgetting a country please.

Major Majors: USA, Soviet Union
Minor Majors: Germany, Great Britain, Japan, Italy, France
Major Minors: India, China, Sweden, Spain, Mexico, Brazil
Minor Minors: Netherlands, Czechoslovakia, Belgium, Greece and so on.

 

[Harrigarno]

I think that you've got a good idea but every country is different. Some would argue that Germany was the most prevalent military strength pre-war, but the US had the most potential industrial power and needed that push to build into the giant it became (not denying that pre-war it was still very formidable). Countries don't really fit into a 1, 2, 3 approach in regards to strength that well, the Soviet Union had an awesome amount of soldiers before Hitler attacked, but in the early stages was pushed back by the smaller German army.

 

[Heruure]

Well, i was thinking more of the potential of the countries instead of actual 1936 strength since that can change before the war.
I also didnt put them in any specific order in the list up there.

 

[Amur_Tiger]

I'd be somewhat tempted to break off Germany and the UK as 'Great Powers' with France, Italy and Japan as 'Major Powers'. The UK on the eve of WW2 produced more then 160% the GDP that France did, and Italy and Japan are far worse off then that even, producing less then a third as much as the UK did.

 

[GeneralPetrov]

I would add the Netherlands to major minors as it has quite a bit of potential, especially with its Indonesian territories. But I would be tempted to move Mexico and possibly Brazil out of major minors, and possibly replace them with Czechoslovakia and Poland.

 

[Victor Cortez]

To me, one of the important factor (apart from the industrial capacity and the population) is the "power projection capabilities", meaning how easy/hard it is for a country to intervene in a very far theatre.
The UK can project their power in Argentina as well as in Norway, South Africa or the Pacific. Germany, even though it has a higher production than the UK, cannot.
The best compromise is definitely the US, for reasons that need not to be discussed.

 

[rafan]

Netherlands, Czechoslovakia, Belgium, Greece, Poland and other (non luxemburg) minors in europe can be counted as having biger potential in the game time frame than most of other continent minors, mostly becouse they were more industralizted.

Take Brazil for example they have land, resourse, polulation, but they lack in industry and infrastructure. Of courst they will be able to sell resourses for factories (if they will be bought) but even if thanks to that they will be able to start bulding factories they will still nead to build infrastructure to incere they limits.

European Minors most of the time will have biger starting industry and infrastructure what will make they grow faster.

In long term cautries like brazil will have highter potential for maximum factories but European minors will grow faster in they smoler limits.
And HOI4 time frame is short right now.

 

[Denkt]

Don't know if we should really categorise countries because there is so many factors to take account.

Like Sweden don't have a large population and was not exactly the most aggressive country but had one of the largest arms industries in the world and developed some of the most advanced technology. It also produced alot of iron.

 

[Heruure]

Well, it was just an idea. Never claimed it to be a good one.

 

[rafan]

Well, it was just an idea. Never claimed it to be a good one.

It looks Sweden is going all neutral on as.

 

[Saint Gwynllyw]

So, if you were to categorise countries into Minor Minors, Major Minors, Minor Majors and Major Majors, how would you place countries?
There is so much talk about the possibilities on countries and there are some very big differences between say Belgium and China despite both being minors and between Italy and USA despite both being majors.
I think it would be something like this for example, didnt take much time to look into the real strength of each country, do dont rage at me for forgetting a country please.

Major Majors: USA, Soviet Union
Minor Majors: Germany, Great Britain, Japan, Italy, France
Major Minors: India, China, Sweden, Spain, Mexico, Brazil
Minor Minors: Netherlands, Czechoslovakia, Belgium, Greece and so on.

Going into the war the UK would be seen as a Major Major. Its only after the war that we begin to lose ground against the USSR and USA.

 

[theJ]

Perhaps what we need is abetter system than "major or minor"?
A four step system with more distinct definitions would make it a lot easier to categorise most nations;
-Great/World Power - Can project their will and influence virtually anywhere on planet earth.
-Major/Continental Power - Can project their will and influence far from their own borders, but still has noticable limits.
-Minor/Local Power - Can project power over their direct neighbours, but is largesly ignored in the wider world.
-Inconsequential Power - Nobody cares what they think, sometimes including their own population.

Of course, it is worth noting that what most people seem to be asking about ain't the influence-based rankings of old, but the hipper, cooler, "who gets to kick the most ass" rankings of today, in which case;
-WWII Standard - The nation is fully prepared to wage WWII, employing tanks, radios, radar, and other "modern" equipment in addition to the Interwar Standard.
-Interwar Standard - The nation has learnt the lessons of WWI, and maintains decently up-to-date artillery, machine guns, and aircraft, in addition to the WWI Standard.
-WWI Standard - The nation has a well developed system for conscription, allowing for massive armies to be fielded... but little to make those numbers effective.
-Fully Outdated Nation - The nations is just plain not able to field a proper army, be it due to tech or numbers.


UK would be a Great Power with WWII Standard.
Germany would be a Major Power with Interwar Standard.
US would be a... um... I really don't know enough about pre-WWII US to judge... but I'll take a jab at Major Power, Interwar Standard, bumped to WWII Standard post-Tizard Mission, and bumbed to Great Power post-war..?
USSR would be a Major Power with WWII Standard... before dropping down to WWI Standard due to excessive purging(having good gear only counts if you know how to use it).
France with be a Great Power with Interwar Standard.
Italy would be a Major Power with WWI Standard.
...
Sweden would be a Minor Power with Interwar Standard.

'least, that's how I see it

 

[Loke]

So, if you were to categorise countries into Minor Minors, Major Minors, Minor Majors and Major Majors, how would you place countries?
There is so much talk about the possibilities on countries and there are some very big differences between say Belgium and China despite both being minors and between Italy and USA despite both being majors.
I think it would be something like this for example, didnt take much time to look into the real strength of each country, do dont rage at me for forgetting a country please.

Major Majors: USA, Soviet Union
Minor Majors: Germany, Great Britain, Japan, Italy, France
Major Minors: India, China, Sweden, Spain, Mexico, Brazil
Minor Minors: Netherlands, Czechoslovakia, Belgium, Greece and so on.

Nice list, my lil change would be;

Major Majors: USA
Minor Majors: Germany, Great Britain, Japan, Italy, France, Soviet
Major Minors: India, China, Sweden, Spain, Mexico, Brazil, Romania, Netherlands, Czechoslovakia, Belgium,.
Minor Minors: The rest...

This can be discussed...

 

[Heruure]

Indeed, what i wanted with all of this was for it to be discussed!

 

[BBBD316]

Well as with every topic in this forum are we talking historically or game wise?

I think Germany can be made to be a Major Major, with better use of diplomacy to keep the US on the sidelines and better work with Japan and Italy in setting war objectives. They could have potentially beaten the Russians and then just pushed for a negotiated settlement with the UK.

 

[chemonaut]

There is a definition for 'majors' in the game right? A major has its own set of national focus and the rest follow the same default?

 

[Heruure]

True, but i wouldnt put Italy in the same category as USA and USSR, quite a strength difference.

 

[Mac Lazer]

I'd put Poland in Minor Majors for sure. They were actually pretty powerful in 1939, and a good player could probably do great things with them.

 

[Heruure]

Poland as a Minor Major? I could give them a spot in Major Minors with Sweden and the rest, but having Poland with Germany, Italy and France would just be bashing your head in the wall.

 

[Mac Lazer]

Poland as a Minor Major? I could give them a spot in Major Minors with Sweden and the rest, but having Poland with Germany, Italy and France would just be bashing your head in the wall.

Right, that's what I meant. Mixed up the two by accident, lol