Casualties

[unmerged(122975)]

There are people who still see themselves or their loved ones on those numbers.

 

[unmerged(40779)]

There are people who still see themselves or their loved ones on those numbers.

So they can easily play a game in which old granpa's 5th Division is starved to death, bombed to pieces and destroyed completely, as long as they lose 10mp instead of 10,000 men? Just don't get it.

 

[Alexander Seil]

No you can't, victoria also features population growth and immigration models...

Soldiers don't migrate and you know their growth rate, so calculating exact casualties is trivial. So yes, you can very much tell what your casualties are in Victoria.

EDIT: It becomes harder, naturally, if you use conscription, but you can still estimate casualties in concrete terms.

 

[Myth]

It seems like Wobbler's eminently sensible post got lost in the wilderness of this thread so I think it's worth reiterating: given that 1 'manpower' is an abstract, undefined (in terms of the real world) unit of measurement it doesn't make any sense to try to calculate actual casualties in terms of (virtual) men because it wouldn't correspond to anything in the game. Additionally, even if manpower was an actual defined unit, it doesn't conform to strength values in any way, shape or form (armored division: 7 mp, 100 strength; marine division: 15 mp, 100 strength) either so calculating virtual deaths is doubly worthless. Unless HoI3's units have strength in proportion to their manpower then I don't really see even keeping tabs on manpower losses as being terribly accurate (armored division at 60% strength has lost ~1.25 manpower if my math is more or less correct, marine division at 60% strength has lost ~6 manpower).

 

[unmerged(58571)]

Erm, keeping statistics over manpower losses would accurately depict how much manpower is lost, which is the only relevant figure anyway.

 

[Myth]

Erm, keeping statistics over manpower losses would accurately depict how much manpower is lost, which is the only relevant figure anyway.

Would it? That made so much sense to me at the time

 

[Hyord]

My point is no soldiers die in HOI. It's a game. I doubt I play it any differently to anyone else who knows it's a game.

Bawwwww! You just love e-drama, don't you? Its ridiculous how personal you're taking such a trivial matter. If I write "Casualties sustained = X amount of men", does that mean that X amount of men ACTUALLY DIED? No. Its a number. On a computer screen. Its not as if every time a casualty is sustained in HoI2 someone is shot in real life.

Detailed statistics would be an excellent addition to HoI3. That way, when the computer simulated grand startegy war game is over, we can look at the monstrous loss of pixels and go "Wow. Fake war sure is hell."

Jesus Christ.

 

[Myrmidon]

I'd like to see a statistic about manpower losses. It's just a game, about war. People die in war. If the issue was about " offending " people then lets look at some of the titles we play?

EU - Imperalism, enslavement and wars. Real bright spots in western history.

CK - Serfdom and Crusades. More bright spots.

Vicky - The racism in this one alone is worth a good laugh if you really think about it. Classifying whole groups of people as " civilized " and " uncivilized "? Ironicly... the so called " civilized " powers at the time were anything but! go figure. You gain prestige for taking over land that is not yours! :rofl:

I light of such I really don't think the " it may offend someone " logic is going to cut it. Someone will, chances are, always be offended. So what. It's not like you can get a " Deaths Head SS " or " Adventures in Poland/Ukraine/China/Phillipines " expansion packs? It's just a game, one about war. In almost every book about war you'll see statistics about KIA/WIA/MIA. It's bound to happen with men killing one another, wich when you strip it all down that is what war is. I have firsthand experance in the matter.

I have no problems with putting in manpower losses. I'd have no problems with population losses from bombing as well. Then again thats just me and I am not bothered by such things. They happened. I can understand why the MP loss from bombing was removed after HoI 1, yet a manpower losses statistic, or at least the option to have one or not as a user preferance would be nice.

 

[Alexander Seil]

It's like saying that it should be prohibited to accurately model the expansion of the universe because Young Earth creationists don't accept the Big Bang theory.

 

[zeekater]

All this thread does is prove that Paradox is right when they forbid any discussions about subjects such as terror bombing/POW's/death camps

 

[Alexander Seil]

This thread does not discuss any prohibited subject as far as I can tell. Unless a mod tells us otherwise. You, ZEEKATER, were the one to bring up a forbidden subject first.

 

[unmerged(40779)]

All this thread does is prove that Paradox is right when they forbid any discussions about subjects such as terror bombing/POW's/death camps

I don't see the connection.
This is a discussion about different ways of showing something that is already in the game, not about bringing in something prohibited.

 

[LordOfBlood]

So, i assume that no one here played CoD, MoH, Battlefield and other series here.

 

[RBM11]

So, i assume that no one here played CoD, MoH, Battlefield and other series here.

I know it's ridiculous people get so worked up over a number. It's like how parents only care about nudity on t.v. but don't give a crap about torture and murder even though the latter is far worse.

 

[Ostheim]

I think mp and mp growth is related with other values like reinforcement cost and it's possible fuddling with it to have soldier-per-mp values might mess up how the economy works and create headaches? It is still a cool idea I think they should at least toy with it.

 

[unmerged(51222)]

I think it's important to keep to definitions. Is this a strategic war game or a shootem up RPG based on grafics? In the HOI series you move counters around the map to try to achieve results that are not based on the instant gratification of violently maiming computer generated images in the most horrific of ways. I like this game because of its seemingly historical, military and geographic content combined with thought out decisions that affect the outcome. I would walk out disappointed if HOI was not accurate at least to a reasonable level and this is why I have been drawn to the game.
Visually the game can be quite mundane (especially after the hours it takes to play it) but if I were looking for a visually stimulating experience I would go fo a shoot em up RPG. I haven't, therefore I am looking for results through numbers.

I therefore agree that whatever statistical input that can be added to the game to enhance the playing experience and provide a means of judging results of personal game play a benefit, even if it includes casualty numbers.

It's nothing personal and I don't find it offensive but actually find HOI's historical accuracies can be educational. As time goes on the historical content of WW2 will become more and more untangible, something that happened in black and white as we finish with color analogical, and become accustomed to viewing the world in HD digital. I therefore find preserving historical accuracy is more and more important, possibly more so in a simulation game such as HOI which strives (I think) to be one of the best. These sort of details can set apart the good from the bad and the ugly.

 

[Tornadoli]

I think that actually each manpower unit should be ***** men in real life, and each division should be *** men in real life etc.
Then after each battle, or war, or general, it should say how many people died in it.
If you surround a unit, and then destroy it, those also count as casualties.

 

[unmerged(122975)]

Personally I would prefer that each division could tell how many soldier/tanks/airplanes has on it. If Paradox, uses a abstract number to measure their strenght, it's up to them, I will play the game like I did HOI1 and 2, and it is not the feature I most want to be changed. I think HOI3 will be a wounderful game

however something has to change: Now we can have divisions with different strenghts from the start and one division with 2 brigades is certanly not the same strenght as a division with 4, even if both are infantry divisions. I wouldn't like to see them represented as both being "100" or having the same bar size.

 

[unmerged(58571)]

Why wouldn't both be able to be at 100% of their nominal strength?

 

[PIT_AMERO]

I think that actually each manpower unit should be ***** men in real life, and each division should be *** men in real life etc.
Then after each battle, or war, or general, it should say how many people died in it.
If you surround a unit, and then destroy it, those also count as casualties.

I'm against that the units to have RL stats, I think that the abstract idea is much better for a game, but I think that it would be very good idea to have a stat about how much mp points you and your enemy lost and how much of it is from inf, tank, fighter or other types of units.