Castile - how to keep morroco and how important is culture?

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mrjohndoe

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Hello,

I have conquered all but three provinces of portugal and had the iberian wedding. Also I am allied with france, savoyen and austria (which has anihilated burgund at the beginning of the game). So I couldn't see a way north for expending my realm. So I see two (maybe three way to expand).
1. go to italy - I don't know how to start this
2. war against england - I don't think I can win this ...
3. go south

So morroco is the target maybe. But in all games before I had the problem that crushing morroco isn't hard but keep their provinces is. Almost every time there was a revolt or something what take away this provinces. Same for tunis.
Can you give me some advices for that.

And as speaking about cultures and religion. I have conquered alot of portugal. So I have their culture in my land (get the message that these are now accepted). I also have the other cultures from start. Should I convert them? What is the advantage of that? It costs a lot of administrative power but what is if I leave it to those cultures?

Regards
 

Gunburned

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I think there are scripted events that fire if you hold the Moroccan coast before a certain year.
You best bet is to try and culture convert them, if you can if not just try and vassalize them.
 

clockworkBabbag

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Hello,

I have conquered all but three provinces of portugal and had the iberian wedding. Also I am allied with france, savoyen and austria (which has anihilated burgund at the beginning of the game). So I couldn't see a way north for expending my realm. So I see two (maybe three way to expand).
1. go to italy - I don't know how to start this
2. war against england - I don't think I can win this ...
3. go south

So morroco is the target maybe. But in all games before I had the problem that crushing morroco isn't hard but keep their provinces is. Almost every time there was a revolt or something what take away this provinces. Same for tunis.
Can you give me some advices for that.

And as speaking about cultures and religion. I have conquered alot of portugal. So I have their culture in my land (get the message that these are now accepted). I also have the other cultures from start. Should I convert them? What is the advantage of that? It costs a lot of administrative power but what is if I leave it to those cultures?

Regards

So you're not colonizing and exploring? Because Castille/Spain is in one of the best positions to do that.

Converting cultures is worth it if you're at the cap for diplo points but are still ahead of time in diplo tech. Don't waste points converting accepted cultures or non-accepted cultures in your same culture group unless you're really having trouble with revolts (and you shouldn't be with those cultures).

If you want to do lots of conquests in Morocco, you're going to want Religious ideas. Conquer a county in Morocco (any county) that is a core of a non-existent nation. Convert that province and then release that nation as a vassal. You can then sell any additional provinces in the same culture group to that vassal, and they'll pay the exorbitant coring costs against nations with Berber Traditions instead of you. They also won't have anywhere near the revolt risk you would have due to being the same culture group and will have an easier time converting the provinces to your religion. Fez is a good choice for a country to vassal feed, as they take religious ideas fairly early and will be capable of converting the Sunni provinces.

Also, make sure you're remembering to raise autonomy in any province you conquer in war against almost any nation. It gives a -10 unrest, which will generally see you through the period of nationalism and coring/converting.
 

NeverHelm

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You don't need to convert any Iberian cultures like Portuguese, Basque or Catalan since you automatically get them accepted when you form Spain.

Vassal feeding as explained above is a good way to save ADM points, and can also help convert more provinces (since each country gets their own missionary).
Also, Spain in your current state should be able to deal with rebels quite easily. Have a few big armies stationed in Africa to supress the uprisings when they come, if you can't avoid them.
 

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Hello,

thanks for the posts. Can you, by a practical example, explaine the vassal feeding? I couldn't convert any of the counties to catholics because of the extreme malus.
So when I give aragon the provinces will they have trouble with them? What will be the outcome?
 

ahyangyi

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Hello,

thanks for the posts. Can you, by a practical example, explaine the vassal feeding? I couldn't convert any of the counties to catholics because of the extreme malus.
So when I give aragon the provinces will they have trouble with them? What will be the outcome?

What... you are Castile. Your 2nd idea is +2 missionary strength. You should be able to convert most provinces with just your national idea and a few decisions.
 

mrjohndoe

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What... you are Castile. Your 2nd idea is +2 missionary strength. You should be able to convert most provinces with just your national idea and a few decisions.
The problem is that I couldn't save enough power to tech. My first idea is defense (the second should be colonization) but now I get -2 stability here, some minus on military power there and now ten years with a regency (?) cause my chief is to young ...
 

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Hello,

thanks for the posts. Can you, by a practical example, explaine the vassal feeding? I couldn't convert any of the counties to catholics because of the extreme malus.
So when I give aragon the provinces will they have trouble with them? What will be the outcome?

Here is a link to Vassals in the wiki that has some info on "Vassal Feeding" though it is a bit out of date.
http://www.eu4wiki.com/Vassal

So the idea behind "vassal feeding" is to make conquering territory (especially territory "unlike" yours) easier / more manageable.

-New territory needs to be Cored and this costs ADM points. ADM points are usually considered more valuable / in demand than Diplomatic points.
-Conquered territory might not be of an accepted culture thus increasing revolt risk
-Conquered territory might not be of the same religion thus increasing revolt risk

Normal Flow with Morocco as an example:
01. When starting to conquer a new area (in this case Morocco and the rest of the Maghreb) you can look for a country that does not currently exist but still has existing Cores or a very small country (currently small) that you can annex in one bite. When moving into Morocco there are no small countries nearby to work with so you look for countries with cores "inside" the country you want to work on conquering first. As mentioned above Fez is an excellent candidate for this. Identify which Moroccan Provinces have Fez Cores.
02. Gain claims on as many provinces as you can that also have Fez Cores and are inside Morocco, or you can claim only one. Make sure that Fez also doesn't exist (rebels etc.)
03. Fight a war with Morocco and take all or only one province with Fez Cores. Usually you don't want take any other provinces in this first war.
04. Convert the future Capital of Fez (you have to just know which province this will be) to your Religion. This is easy if you only control one Fez core. If you do take more than one Fez Core you may want to convert more than one province to boost Religious unity in Fez when it is initially release. You probably DON'T want to convert ALL provinces because this might discourage the released Fez from taking the Religious Idea group (no provinces to convert). Here is a link to Fez on the wiki
05. You probably DON'T want to convert the Culture of the Fez Provinces. Fez will take on the Primary culture of its capital province when released, countries get less penalties and revolt risk from cultures in the same culture group but are "non-accepted" it will get no penalties from provinces from its Primary and Accepted cultures.
06. Release Fez as a Vassal. You do this from the Diplomacy tab. This will use up a Relationship so it is a good idea to have one free unless you don't mind going over the cap.
07. Wait for your Truce to end with Morocco or start a war with another nation with a boarder with the newly created Fez. (Especially nations who own Fez cores)
08. In the piece deal you can either use "return core" if an occupied province has a Fez core or before you negotiate a peace deal you can assign occupation to Fez. (new in 1.8). As an alternative you can take all the provinces in the peace and sell Fez all of them. Fez may not buy some though (they don't "want" the province) so be careful. Also, make sure you don't Overextend you Vassal too much. (especially not over 100% over extension.) You will have to do some math in your head to calculate the amount of over extension for your vassal.
09. Your Vassal will now use its ADM points to core the newly conquered provinces. It will also use its Missionary to Convert all the provinces it can convert to its Religion, which SHOULD be your religion (from step 4).
10. Repeat steps 7-10 until you are ready to reabsorb your now MUCH larger Vassal.
11. Open Diplomacy and assign a Diplomat to Annex Vassal. This takes time and Diplo points to do and is based off the Current Base tax of the Vassal. You CANNOT Annex a vassal you have turned into a March. You will have to un-March any vassal and take the Stability / Relationship hit (-200) before you annex. You will also have to let a great deal of the relationship hit (-200) burn off before you get back to +190 Relations which is the minimum for Annexing a vassal. Ultimately you may not want to create Marches out of any Vassal you want to absorb.

Finally you will want to use multiple vassals for this process VS. one. Once a vassal gets to a moderate size or there is another small vassal you can create at the edge of your current vassal, create the new vassal and begin to reabsorb the current vassal.

You will also need a Casus Belli which maybe hard in earlier parts of the game if you don't share a boarder with the country you are trying to conquer once you have created a vassal to feed. This has been somewhat reduced because you can use your Vassal's CBs but they may not have one. Once you get the Imperialism CB you are pretty much set.
 

mrjohndoe

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Here is a link to Vassals in the wiki that has some info on "Vassal Feeding" though it is a bit out of date.
http://www.eu4wiki.com/Vassal

So the idea behind "vassal feeding" is to make conquering territory (especially territory "unlike" yours) easier / more manageable.

-New territory needs to be Cored and this costs ADM points. ADM points are usually considered more valuable / in demand than Diplomatic points.
-Conquered territory might not be of an accepted culture thus increasing revolt risk
-Conquered territory might not be of the same religion thus increasing revolt risk

Normal Flow with Morocco as an example:
01. When starting to conquer a new area (in this case Morocco and the rest of the Maghreb) you can look for a country that does not currently exist but still has existing Cores or a very small country (currently small) that you can annex in one bite. When moving into Morocco there are no small countries nearby to work with so you look for countries with cores "inside" the country you want to work on conquering first. As mentioned above Fez is an excellent candidate for this. Identify which Moroccan Provinces have Fez Cores.
02. Gain claims on as many provinces as you can that also have Fez Cores and are inside Morocco, or you can claim only one. Make sure that Fez also doesn't exist (rebels etc.)
03. Fight a war with Morocco and take all or only one province with Fez Cores. Usually you don't want take any other provinces in this first war.
04. Convert the future Capital of Fez (you have to just know which province this will be) to your Religion. This is easy if you only control one Fez core. If you do take more than one Fez Core you may want to convert more than one province to boost Religious unity in Fez when it is initially release. You probably DON'T want to convert ALL provinces because this might discourage the released Fez from taking the Religious Idea group (no provinces to convert). Here is a link to Fez on the wiki
05. You probably DON'T want to convert the Culture of the Fez Provinces. Fez will take on the Primary culture of its capital province when released, countries get less penalties and revolt risk from cultures in the same culture group but are "non-accepted" it will get no penalties from provinces from its Primary and Accepted cultures.
06. Release Fez as a Vassal. You do this from the Diplomacy tab. This will use up a Relationship so it is a good idea to have one free unless you don't mind going over the cap.
07. Wait for your Truce to end with Morocco or start a war with another nation with a boarder with the newly created Fez. (Especially nations who own Fez cores)
08. In the piece deal you can either use "return core" if an occupied province has a Fez core or before you negotiate a peace deal you can assign occupation to Fez. (new in 1.8). As an alternative you can take all the provinces in the peace and sell Fez all of them. Fez may not buy some though (they don't "want" the province) so be careful. Also, make sure you don't Overextend you Vassal too much. (especially not over 100% over extension.) You will have to do some math in your head to calculate the amount of over extension for your vassal.
09. Your Vassal will now use its ADM points to core the newly conquered provinces. It will also use its Missionary to Convert all the provinces it can convert to its Religion, which SHOULD be your religion (from step 4).
10. Repeat steps 7-10 until you are ready to reabsorb your now MUCH larger Vassal.
11. Open Diplomacy and assign a Diplomat to Annex Vassal. This takes time and Diplo points to do and is based off the Current Base tax of the Vassal. You CANNOT Annex a vassal you have turned into a March. You will have to un-March any vassal and take the Stability / Relationship hit (-200) before you annex. You will also have to let a great deal of the relationship hit (-200) burn off before you get back to +190 Relations which is the minimum for Annexing a vassal. Ultimately you may not want to create Marches out of any Vassal you want to absorb.

Finally you will want to use multiple vassals for this process VS. one. Once a vassal gets to a moderate size or there is another small vassal you can create at the edge of your current vassal, create the new vassal and begin to reabsorb the current vassal.

You will also need a Casus Belli which maybe hard in earlier parts of the game if you don't share a boarder with the country you are trying to conquer once you have created a vassal to feed. This has been somewhat reduced because you can use your Vassal's CBs but they may not have one. Once you get the Imperialism CB you are pretty much set.

Thanks for the long post. Now I see how to try this.
 

lougarou

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Honestly I think going into Morocco is a waste. I would just colonize and start a conquest spree in Asia or something.
I started a CAS game by taking Agadir. This is overseas, and as such does not cost that much. I am now waiting to get religious ideas (I always take exploration first), and will expand in Morocco. I will use a vassal for the North coast (not overseas). I find that taking that taking a piece of South Morocco is interesting because it's rich (gold, sugar, spices).