Carthage

[unmerged(29774)]

I don't know, but it would be pretty cool to install some old empires ... ie: Carthage.

For some reason I keep playing games where I take over Andalusia, Mauretania and Africa with my eyes on Sicily and Sardinia. I know i could mod it for myself, but like in the days of EU2 I enjoy some ahistorical stuff. Granted the restoration of the ERE is rather neat, only reason everyone is obsessed with the Byzantines is due to that one little province left over in EU2 (at least for me) about to be swallowed up by the Ottomans.

But I always figured with that much territory held, that many kingdoms crushed, a proclamation of Empire would be neat.

I see people talking about Poland/Hungary/Lithuania empires, why not use that region in EU3 "Jagellonian Empire"

It's just fun to cut out your own swath of what could be.

 

[Ols]

No, because none of these Empires have a historical basis at the time. Granted a Polish-Lithuanian Empire might be interesting, but the Carthaginians are an extinct ethnic group at the time and it makes more sense to form the Arabic Empire if you're a character from that region and want a challenge.

 

[Goodfortune99]

Indeed some empires would be chool, but some ccould just not exist. Howabout Macedonian em?pire

 

[Spartanlemur]

Titular yes, with specific conditions. More minor cultures would help with these kingdoms/empires as they would be a condition in many cases. They would provide much more interesting gameplay goals and thus contribute to replayability. I mean Greece/Hellas was formed when it gained independence from the Ottoman Empire after being nonexistent for 400/1800 years (depending on whether you consider the Byzantine Empire to technically be more of an Italian Roman construct or a Hellenic entity. I would argue the former, but that's just me.

 

[ASPGolan]

Mod it... and then its possible. For other purposes, the game should keep close to some of the historical starting points, it makes more sense to play. But for all intents, if you think its an interesting idea to play that, mod it and show us how it went .

 

[Nuril]

Mod it... and then its possible. For other purposes, the game should keep close to some of the historical starting points, it makes more sense to play. But for all intents, if you think its an interesting idea to play that, mod it and show us how it went .

+1 By the Gods, Paradox, do you see the kind of thinking adding those fictional Empires of yours to vanilla breeds? Friggin' Carthage and Alexandrian Empires in the Middle Ages.

If you wanted something not insanely ahistorical, however, you could make things involving the Roman Empire and the Exarchate of Carthage replacing Tunis.

 

[n000b]

No, because none of these Empires have a historical basis at the time.

Neither do Scandinavia, Brittannia, Russia... Well just all the current createable empires, pretty much?

Since paradox have decided to go with fantasy empires, I dont see why these cant be created. Though the name Jagellonian Empire needs another name, but the region from EU3 would fit well in.

 

[unmerged(29774)]

Considering after day 1 the game is completely ahistorical anyways - just add some flavor for fun, shake things up a bit. We don't need to be nilla all the time and I'd prefer Paradoxes approach rather than a modded approach.

 

[postm00v]

Try using this :

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?608632-Mod-Generator-Kingdoms-%28and-Empires%29-Abound-Titular-Title-Generator&

 

[unmerged(29774)]

Yeah, looked at it - not completely sold on it though. Probably has to do with my lack of understanding

 

[Sian]

Neither do Scandinavia

Kalmar Union in the tailend ... true, it could also (and prehaps better) be interpreted as one monach winning at the marriage game getting all 3 crowns

 

[Sarog]

They would provide much more interesting gameplay goals and thus contribute to replayability. I mean Greece/Hellas was formed when it gained independence from the Ottoman Empire after being nonexistent for 400/1800 years (depending on whether you consider the Byzantine Empire to technically be more of an Italian Roman construct or a Hellenic entity.

There is a big difference between a subjugated nation that is denied its own statehood but still retains its own cultural identity, and a culture that has vanished from the earth. Greece and Carthage are not nearly comparable here. "Greece" did not exist as a state, but greek culture, language and identity never disappeared under either the Romans or Ottomans, so the foundation of an independent state for the Greek nation was not like some ancient polity being resurrected out of nothing. Carthaginian culture, language and identity were swallowed by the void, and for an arab, italian or greek in the middle ages to proclaim himself the ruler of a restored Carthaginian empire would be fundamentally the same as if Saddam Hussein declared himself the King of Babylon.

I get the feeling that a lot of people approach this game wishing that it were some variant of Rome Total War. So many requests for stuff from the classical age that really have no place in a medieval context. Excellent territory to mod for, but very absurd suggestions for the base game.

 

[FietsPomp]

There is a big difference between a subjugated nation that is denied its own statehood but still retains its own cultural identity, and a culture that has vanished from the earth. Greece and Carthage are not nearly comparable here. "Greece" did not exist as a state, but greek culture, language and identity never disappeared under either the Romans or Ottomans, so the foundation of an independent state for the Greek nation was not like some ancient polity being resurrected out of nothing. Carthaginian culture, language and identity were swallowed by the void, and for an arab, italian or greek in the middle ages to proclaim himself the ruler of a restored Carthaginian empire would be fundamentally the same as if Saddam Hussein declared himself the King of Babylon.

Yea or a bunch of German kings calling themselves emperors of rome. Or a slavic people calling themselves Macedonians.

 

[Federalist girl]

The last time Carthage existed as a city, it was the capital of Roman North Africa -- recovered from the Vandals by Justinian. It was then sacked by the Arabs. If anything, Carthaginian culture was and had been Roman for like a thousand years.

 

[Deaghaidh]

The idea of a super-successfull crusade in North Africa resulting in a "Kingdom of Carthage" isn't crazy. Carthage being the last capitol of the region when ruled by Christians, it actually makes a bit of sense.

 

[unmerged(29774)]

So? The Carthage Empire shall rise again - Forget you naysayers, I'm gonna start in the Kingdom of Africa and annihilate all of your wimpy empires that have all failed anyways.

 

[Lord Finnish]

The last time Carthage existed as a city, it was the capital of Roman North Africa -- recovered from the Vandals by Justinian. It was then sacked by the Arabs. If anything, Carthaginian culture was and had been Roman for like a thousand years.

This.
It's better just call it "Tunisian Empire" or something.

 

[unmerged(29774)]

True, but Carthage has a nicer ring to it. I'm also rather tired of the Romanized names of Empires, ie: Brittania, Hispania, Arabia, Francia, blah blah blah. I like what some people have suggested elsewhere about Celtic culture (Welsh, Breton, Irish, Scottish) take over the British Isles forming Albion (not Brittania). Perhaps following a similar basis of not being able to form Andalusia unless you're Arabic.

But yes, Tunisian Empire word work - hell we could then also have the Phoenicians represented by a Levantine Empire. Old powers before the northern Roman and Greeks took over.

Outremer would work too, having Jerusalem, Edessa, Tripoli, Antioch and part of Armenia

 

[unmerged(29774)]

The idea of a super-successfull crusade in North Africa resulting in a "Kingdom of Carthage" isn't crazy. Carthage being the last capitol of the region when ruled by Christians, it actually makes a bit of sense.

I'm with this dude.

 

[Deaghaidh]

I'm with this dude.

Thank you

Empire wise, maybe if you had your Capitol in Tunis and controlled the kingdoms of Tunisia, Africa, Sicily, Morocco and Andalusia (or a high percentage of that territory) a Carthagian Empire makes sense. But really any Empire that's not at least rhetorically grounded in Rome is a-historical for Christians. At this point Imperial and Roman were virtual synonyms.

Arguably, there should only be one Empire allowed for each religion at any given time, i.e the HRE for Catholics, the ERE for Orthodox. If you have an anti-pope and the HRE follows the pope-pope, maybe you could crown yourself an Emperor.