Carrier Warfare
- Thread starter Lowki
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I think they make sense as Wiz used them in the stream yesterday - he put bombers on the military stations because they have bigger range. Of course you could build very long-range rockets as well, but would it be worth it? You can only use a rocket once, and they could be very expensive if you wanted to shoot from Mars to Earth, so it is logical to use a small vessel equipped with several short-ranged rockets (or other weapon), which might survive the encounter and resupply. (However this vessel doesn't necessarily have to be manned, in that I think you are right).
I think I'm going to build my raiding ships on cruiser hulls. Raiders need to be able to overwhelm their targets and then depart before the enemy can respond, so they're going to be loaded out with long-range weaponry and a single wing of bombers. My hope is that enemy civilian stations and rear-area systems will contain few if any defensive fighters, so the bombers will be able to wreak havoc.
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I'm not sure anyone would really want hard sci-fi.
"The fleet after 400 years has finally arrived enage the enemy fleet. The enemy are firing. We're hit, hull breach, everyone dead"
Just another 10 years to build and replace our battleship.
"The fleet after 400 years has finally arrived enage the enemy fleet. The enemy are firing. We're hit, hull breach, everyone dead"
Just another 10 years to build and replace our battleship.
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This were my plans as well, the cruiser hull seem like the best in combination of long range firepower and speed to get away.
A small group of three cruisers and two destroyer escorts. That would be about 1-1,5k strength and should be able to deal with most minor stations relatively quickly. Fleet strength of 16, so a couple of these groups should be doable in a decent empire.
They can also substitute for light carriers in a fleet if I need it.
I don't recall ever encountering a Sci-Fi game where carriers-in-space really worked like WWII carrier warfare in the Pacific. The distinguishing feature of the latter was that the opposing carriers & escorts operated beyond sensor range of each other and aircraft had to be sent out to find the opposing fleet before a strike could be launched. Unless highly abstracted, that would make for very long battles for a 4X game. I'd probably enjoy it, but I doubt a majority of the 4X fan base would.
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Will come down to how effective bombers are against cap ships and how exactly they will work in combat.
It looks like based on the streams that Bombers are considered longer ranged than regular weaponry.
Will they make an attack run then return? Will they swam around a ship firing non-stop until they die? How long can they last? How long until another wave comes out?
According to the stream a basic bomber wing's important stats seem to be:
Type: Strike Craft.
Units: 4 (+0.03 / time)
Damage 15-28
Cooldown 5 time
Accuracy 100%
Range 8
Hull Points 9
Avg DMG - 17.20 per time (1 month?)
Ignores 50% armour & 100% shields (note most other regular ship weapons only do one or the other and not both).
Now based on the fact that a fusion missile has a range of 36 and a cooldown of 5.5 and a plasma thrower range 40 and cooldown 4.35 compared to a bomber with 8 range, it makes me think a strike craft works in game like ship, but one that can be rebuilt internally by the carrier.
Their 'range' is only 8, but I figure that once launched they can transit the system like any other ship.
Based on the above, I think they will be useful, but unlikely to result in being OP. Sure, the bombers might do some damage, but the combat ranges in this game aren't really that big, it seems to me it's more Mediterranean Sea than Pacific Ocean. Go too hard on strike craft, and the enemy can adapt pretty easily, and still go and kick the carriers arse in ship to ship combat.
Putting them on a defense station, especially if the AI still goes around building wormhole stations in your space is probably the best use for them.
It looks like based on the streams that Bombers are considered longer ranged than regular weaponry.
Will they make an attack run then return? Will they swam around a ship firing non-stop until they die? How long can they last? How long until another wave comes out?
According to the stream a basic bomber wing's important stats seem to be:
Type: Strike Craft.
Units: 4 (+0.03 / time)
Damage 15-28
Cooldown 5 time
Accuracy 100%
Range 8
Hull Points 9
Avg DMG - 17.20 per time (1 month?)
Ignores 50% armour & 100% shields (note most other regular ship weapons only do one or the other and not both).
Now based on the fact that a fusion missile has a range of 36 and a cooldown of 5.5 and a plasma thrower range 40 and cooldown 4.35 compared to a bomber with 8 range, it makes me think a strike craft works in game like ship, but one that can be rebuilt internally by the carrier.
Their 'range' is only 8, but I figure that once launched they can transit the system like any other ship.
Based on the above, I think they will be useful, but unlikely to result in being OP. Sure, the bombers might do some damage, but the combat ranges in this game aren't really that big, it seems to me it's more Mediterranean Sea than Pacific Ocean. Go too hard on strike craft, and the enemy can adapt pretty easily, and still go and kick the carriers arse in ship to ship combat.
Putting them on a defense station, especially if the AI still goes around building wormhole stations in your space is probably the best use for them.
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Actually, I was discussing something with a military buddy of mine, drone carriers are a possibility for the future, so I'd really love it if Stellaris would have some eventually.
That's probably a matter for RP and individual headcanon.
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You know, back in my day "headcannon" was just called imagination
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If you ever played Aurora 4x you would have experienced fighters that work beyond sensor range. They are basically a very small ship that is very hard to detect, they can even strike from one system to another if you have advanced enough technology to do so.
You know, back in my day "headcannon" was just called imagination
We old-timers must adapt to the language of the children these days. Our lexicon must increase in dankness in order to be truly on fleek. Or p good. Or whatever it is that we must now say.
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Assuming the in-game tech descriptions don't state it outright.
Does Sins of a Solar Empire count as 4x?I cannot recall any space 4X where carriers were efficient. Definitively not MoO2.
I always play Advent for the sole purpose of access to drone networks and drone carriers. If I get a big enough carrier fleet, I've still yet to lose to anything. Doesn't seem to matter what it is.
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In my opinion Sins of a Solar empire is not a 4x game, at least not in a traditional sense. This game are more of an RTS, resource and strategy game. The game are a bit too focused on construction of units and gather resources to be a 4x game. But that is just my opinion.
But anyway, carrier fleets are fun and I do hope they will fill their role as will any other type of ship.
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Its more like total war to me. So yes if think total war 4x.
Incidentally isnt phase missile bombers (aka vasari) just better?
I imagine the base fighters and bombers to be manned, but I would not be surprised if AI tech research allows you to update them to advanced combat drones with better stats.
As for Sins, that's more a strategic RTS than a true 4X.
Though Stardock refers to the game as an RT4X.
As for my favourite faction for that game, I prefer Advent or Vasari.
As for Sins, that's more a strategic RTS than a true 4X.
Though Stardock refers to the game as an RT4X.
As for my favourite faction for that game, I prefer Advent or Vasari.
Vassari missiles are hard to disagree with, but I am particularly partial to the Advent drone research. The Drone host ships and the drone carriers combine to just produce so much stingy wasp death.
Space Empires V features the possibility for that kind of gameplay. Sensors had a limited range and fighters were able to operate as independent entities on the strategic layer once launched from their base as long as their fuel and munition stores lasted, so you could launch a fighter strike against an enemy force from the other side of a system in the strategic layer and the fighter attack would then be resolved in the game's tactical combat mode.