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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

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Rabid

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Because he can backstab them now and get a big personal benefit plus a potential strong ally out of it? :p
 

Enewald

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Btw, now would be a cool time to divide Austria between Hungary, Russija, Ottoes, Italian states and Prussija. :D
 

unmerged(95429)

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Prussija? Meinst du 'Preußen'?
 

Nikolai

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I read Prussija as a puppeted version/region of Rodina.;)
 

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Seems to me you fell between two stools. France has a victory in Switzerland, which will offset the loss of her fleet, and Britain will sooner or later cease to throw troops onto the continent. Those two may stay at war for a hundred years, but the fighting will probably move away from France proper. Now Italy has gored Austria, Hungary is independent, and you've ended without an ally of any worth. Unless you act now to restore the balance, that is.

Perhaps you waited just a bit too long, but - had you intervened in France - you might now be wishing you had not, since a French collapse would mostly benefit Britain. Seems to me the best case for the long term is to improve relations with Italy while propping up Austria (and allying with them if possible). War with Hungary is best done now... and any territories seized can be handed piecemeal over to Austria. They should be grateful... In other words, status quo ante bellum while aiming for an eventual alliance with Italy. You might even consider making large cash donations and (dare I say it?) expeditionary forces to France. After all, they can't come after you while they're at war with Britain, and Britain is much more powerful. That's what I would do were I in your shoes... suitably Bismarkian? :p

I await Germany's brilliant response to this crisis with eager anticipation! :)
 

unmerged(95429)

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I say you just go Teutonic on everyone's ass and who ever is the least dead you puppet and use them as your own little bullet-sponge state. :)
 

robou

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To All: That is an amazingly large ammount of feedback. I am most pleasantly surprised. Update will be today, of course, and I will try and better explain the situation in Hungary. Hope you enjoy.

Enewald: Perhaps I should have gone at France; the oppertunity I had to crush them has gone for now, but who is to say it shan't return? And surely I would want my victory over France to be a glorious one, not sneaking round the back while their not looking.

demokratickid: Austria isn't fairing as well as usual this time round. She usually does ok in my games but the Two Sicilies really put the pressure on when the Italian Revoultion came round and made that victory so much harder. And now Austria is further ripped apart and has many more problems, as well as no Germany to lean on.

Ahura Mazda: Wait and find out...

Akaki: Indeed they are, but I will explain in the next update why I called them 'Austrian Hungary' in the next update. There is a reason, I didn't just forget the name ;)

ColossusCrusher: Now, now Children, behave and share! :D

asd21593: Indeed there are some nice gains to be made their, but I have to think about more things than just resources. Not only would I be left with a several hundred mile peninsular sticking out between Hungary and Russia, but I also don't really need what Galicia can give. Most of the provinces are Coal, of which I already have a most healthy production (in the hundreds ;)) so the gains do not really outweigh the risks. Perhaps if I took a bit more of Congress Poland however....

Nikolai: You have my mind, at least; but I must consider what will place me in the most profitable geo-political situation. Some thinking to be done.

Irencius: Yes, I have considered the fact. A German intervention would be risky, and I doubt I could manage it without mobilisation because of Russia. Hold it back as long as possible, of course, but it would be needed if the bear started invading East Prussia.... and yes, France is doing me a big favour at the moment. Keeping the British off my back while I play God with Europe is most helpful.

Ezdako: My friend, remember the old saying 'Never underestimate an enemy, but never overestimate an Ally'? Well, that would be the problem I would face with Hungary. Yes, they are big, and they have great potential, but as we shall see, it is a union riddled with problems.

Eöl: I can take on Austria... and I should be able to take on Russia too. Denmark is of no consequence, and Britain and France are far to embroiled to come to Austria's rescue. If I fight this war, it will be Austria and Russia only.

Tommy4ever: Well, it is a fair point. Due to me taking the Sudetenland, Galicia is no longer connected to Austria-proper. I can't say exactly what will happen, but looks like what Austria troops were still there will be on their own; until the Russians come in.

comagoosie: Like I said before, if I beat France, I want it to be a crowning victory. Not cutting in on the side and stealing all the laurels. But if I go into any war, expect me to throw my full weight at it. No half-hearted efforts thank you very much...

phargle, Kampf_Machen: Heh, no I have some better ideas for governers... ;)

TRP: I am not decided yet... well... I have in the game but I am not telling you yet. Just for the books, though, if Hungary survives I won't make life easy for them. I've been reading into the Hungarian revolution, and it wasn't quite as dissent lacking as it may seem.

Please don't spam about naming, just stick with Prussia ;)

Director: You've hit it on the head there, sir. As long as France and Britain are at war with each other, the game actually prohibits them from attacking me. You are only allowed to be fighting one war at a time, unless someone else declares war on you. Also, it is true that Austria has proved to be of little use now.

You cannot tell a history that has not happened, and who knows what would have happened if I had invaded France? But I will repeat myself again that I want to take France on face to face and beat them in the field. And I may have missed a chance to get at France, but I now have an opertunity to intervene in a place of much more worth to me (mmm, national POPS ;)). But I fear you are being too Bismarckian for Germany's taste. If I am going to take Austria on, I may as well do it and end it while Britain and France are embroiled. I can then prepare later for the consequences.


Blimey... now I have to write the update!
 

robou

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1848: Paused

The period after the declaration of Hungarian independence was a most odd time. For several months a peace continued while both sides contemplated what to do. With this pause in events, perhaps it is a good place to study the new nation, or Union of Hungarian Provinces. The makeup of this odd coalition of provinces would be pivotal in the Hungarian struggle for independence. This is perhaps one of the reasons why Austria was so dumbstruck when Hungary broke away. They simply didn’t understand what made Hungary tick; why they had split from Vienna.

The fact was Hungary had never wanted to be completely independent from Austria. It was the vision of the Hungarian Diet that Hungary would still remain in the Hapsburg Empire, with the Emperor as King of Hungary, but that they would command Hungarian regiments in the Hapsburg Army and gain all revenue from Hungarian provinces. However, both radicals in the Diet and the Austrian reaction to quite reasonable demands lead events towards civil war.

When, on May 20th, the governor of Budapest refused the demands on behalf of his Emperor, he was ousted from his palace by a group of Hungarian Radicals, Márciusi Ifjak (“Youths of March”), led by the poet Sándor Petőfi. Pest then erupted into revolution. Though no violence is known to have gone on, Petőfi managed to raise a crowd, and brandishing his ‘Twelve Points’ which he had presented to the governor, gave a rousing and poetic speech speaking of Austrian aloofness and stubbornness. Caught in the flair of the moment, the Hungarian Flag was raised over Pest. The Diet in Buda convened and after a few days, decided unanimously that events had moved far beyond their control. The Diet had thrown their lot in with the revolutionaries. On May 28th, after news had spread over the country, Hungary was proclaimed as an independent nation. At first, only the area around Budapest was in revolt, but soon Debrecen joined in the revolt. In a matter of days, Hungary was aflame with Revolution. Speakers ever managed to pull the Slovakians and Transylvanians into the revolutions as well.



March15.jpg

Sándor Petőfi speaks to the crowd in Pest, proclaiming his 'Twelve Points' have been rejected and the Governor thrown out.


The entry of Slovakia, Ruthenia and Transylvania must be studied in further detail. None of the regions felt any connection with Hungary; they had been branded part of ‘Greater Hungary’ by the Austrians, and had been targeted by the Hungarians as allies for that reason alone. The lot of life for these people had never been a good one. The Hungarians had been treated as second class citizens of the Empire, but the Slovakians and Transylvanians, especially the latter, had been like dogs to the Austrians. If Hungary was in revolution, they could break away from a nation which had mistreated them for a century; there as at least a good chance that they would be classed higher by the Hungarians.

The Transylvanians were a badly organized society, though. The ‘Bordersmen’, as they had been called by the Austrians, were tough soldiers, but they could not fight when so detached from one another. Some of them were in support of the Hungarians Revolution; for now it seemed the most sensible option to take. However, a large number of them were deeply affected by news from south o the border. In the principalities of Wallachia and Moldavia there were desperate cries from the people of these areas to rise up against Ottoman oppression and form an organized state that could stand against the Turks when needed. They called it Romania, and many men were drawn to support its formation; better than life under Hungarians.

Violence, which had been avoided in Hungary, broke out in the Carpathians. The Hungarians and Germans, who lived there, with the support of a fair number of Transylvanians, were attacked by ‘Romanians’ in Cluj. In the vicious hand to hand fighting, thirteen people were killed. Quickly organizing themselves into rag-tag militia, a brutal civil war broke out. Battles were not large, true, but they were numerous and were fought without mercy. Civilians who got in the way were not spared either. If a family was found to be supporting the other side the men would be hung and the women raped and often killed afterwards. In desperation to try and clam the area down, the Hungarian diet authorized an army of 20,000 men, under Petőfi, though woefully under-prepared and trained, to be sent to the region. They made someway to controlling the violence, often having to take sides with the ‘Anti-Romanians’. Unfortunately, it cost Hungary one of its most influential leaders, when Petőfi was killed during a skirmish with a shot to the forehead. He could not be given a funeral in Budapest as his body was not identifiable after the battle; the ‘Romanians’ had mutilated the corpse.




Battle_of_Lawrence.png

The violence in Transylvania was some of the most vicious ever recorded. Civilian was not a word in that province.


In Slovakia, violence was not common, but the Slovaks refused to serve under Hungarian officers that were placed in command of their regiments. The lack of cooperation between the two peoples, and the lack of an educated officer-class in Slovakia gave immense problems to the already disorganized rabble the Hungarians called their army. Most of the army was a hastily prepared Militia, about 200,000 of them, armed with whatever could be spared for guns and others with farming equipment that they brought. Around 30,000 regulars from the Austrian Army had deserted and joined the ranks of the Hungarian Army. These were organized into ‘Veteran Divisions’ instead of spreading out these men to the militia formations. This severely hampered the preparation of the Hungarian Army and would be one of the biggest criticisms of the Diet during this period.

For four months, no one did anything. Hungarian politicians continued to dither over the organization of their nation, while Austria ones continued to recover from the shock and bring troops to where they were needed. By the time Austria did decide to invade Hungary on September 12th, Germany had already made up her mind about what to do. Over those four months, Germany had placed 150,000 men of the regular army on the Austrian border; perhaps a part of the reason Austria took so long to work out what to do. Austrian offensives were slow to get moving, and by early November, all that Austrian forces had achieved was to create a safe-zone around Vienna by taking Sopron. With Radetzky sent north to prepare garrisons against Germany, somewhat more lackluster Austrian officers refused to go on the offensives and produced only lists of what they needed to do it with. Unknown to them, of course, the Hungarian army was in no state to do anything to retaliate. Most of it languished in front of Budapest waiting for the Austrian assault Hungarian commanders were sure would come.

The situation was not quite as favorable as had been hoped by Berlin. Hungary was not proving to be the annoyance once considered, and the Austrians declined to throw their full weight at Hungary. A move would have to be made, though, if this chance was not be floundered like France had been. When Russia began making overtures to assist Austria in her fight, it was enough proof to show that time was running out for the Germans. Bismarck was naturally cautious of going to war. Fighting Austria and Russia at once would be no mean feat, and every resource available to Germany would be required for victory. Added to that, the German military had had a crisis to deal with in 1848 that was the premature death of Generalfeldmarschall von dem Knesebeck. He had died in June, and his replacement, Karl Freiherr von Müffling, was proving himself somewhat inept at large-scale army planning*. But still, the opportunity was there. Britain and France were unable to act on Germany’s plans, and their war looked nowhere near ending, and Austria was partially occupied. Bismarck decided to hope that Russia had still not recovered from her first defeat, and the army was still badly mauled from the experience to be too much of a threat.

Though there was no official alliance between Hungary and Germany, Berlin issued a formal declaration of war to Vienna on November 1st, 1848. By November 6th, German forces had begun moving into Bohemia and Galicia** but the Austrians had also replied most unexpectedly. The fate of their nation depended on their reply’s success.


Notes:
*: Karl Freiherr von Müffling was move well known for his love of maps and cartography.
**: Galicia was sometimes referred to as Austrian Hungary in 1848, as Polish rebels in the region had allied themselves to Budapest but their rebellion had been prohibited by the Austrian garrison in the region. Hungary vowed to take back Galicia as revenge.




 

Enewald

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Remember that war is always the ultimate form of diplomacy.
So never dow anyone before you have assaulted them with diplomacy. :D
And it would have been better for both German and French people would you have back stabbed them, instead of waiting for a brutal war to fight later on. :rolleyes:

How the heck did the maygars manage to gain control of all that area in such a short time? :confused:
The game sucks sometimes.
 

unmerged(81979)

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My, the whole of Central Europe seems to be exploding and dissolving without control...

And even today Slovaks won't serve udner a Hungarian commander... :D :rofl:
 

comagoosie

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I too am surprised at how little Hungary has affected Austria. I put my lot in the bowl that said, "Austria goes all out at Hungary without a moment of delay". Shows what I know about Victoria :rolleyes:
 

unmerged(96020)

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What is Austria's awe-inspiring response? Anschluss? :p

Yeah right. One can dream, though.

And it would have been better for both German and French people would you have back stabbed them, instead of waiting for a brutal war to fight later on.
I'm still of the opinion that whoever fights Britain deserves German support, not betrayal! Hmph!

Besides, the French and the British -- both key enemies of Germany -- will be bled dry the longer the slaughter machine continues. That's dozens of divisions waiting to kill each other without Germany having to lift a finger. What did Sun Tzu say? Something along the lines of a victory without fighting is the best of all. Von Clausewitz agree, too. He said war is merely a continuation of politics, so if politics suffice, why war?
 

Enewald

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What is Austria's awe-inspiring response? Anschluss? :p

Yeah right. One can dream, though.


I'm still of the opinion that whoever fights Britain deserves German support, not betrayal! Hmph!

Besides, the French and the British -- both key enemies of Germany -- will be bled dry the longer the slaughter machine continues. That's dozens of divisions waiting to kill each other without Germany having to lift a finger. What did Sun Tzu say? Something along the lines of a victory without fighting is the best of all. Von Clausewitz agree, too. He said war is merely a continuation of politics, so if politics suffice, why war?

Yep, victory without shedding blood is the best one. But he says also that one must always use the initiative. So while the two of them fight, stab the one which is closer you making you gain more with ease.
 

unmerged(95429)

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I say that you let them bled each other white. Stand behind the Rhine and laugh. Work towards (not neccessarily make it) Italian unification (minus whatever Italian land that is owned by Austria, you can just annex that to give you a breathing hole into the Mediterranean). Ally with Hungary, you'll want someone to help cover any possible Ostfront. If the war hasn't been concluded after all of that. Attack France. Even if the wars moved off of the continent, their troops will be tied down. I'd say a lightning raid into France to cut off any Swiss armies, liberate Switzerland (annex German POP's give Italians theirs).
 

unmerged(87106)

Romanorum Imperator Augustus
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Wonderful update!

Can't wait to see what happens!

I predict a Russian declaration of war *shudders*
 

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Sergeant
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Entertaining. :D
 

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Wonderful update!

Can't wait to see what happens!

I predict a Russian declaration of war *shudders*

Ah bah-humbug. Like he hasn't shown that he can handle Russia and Austria. Mind now Austria is crippled. They used to say the Ottoman Empire was the sick man of Europe, well right now he's liking a lot like an Olympic runner in comparision.
 

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Maharaja of Fenno-Scandia
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I've just started a Prussia AAR in Swedish, this AAR is my foremost source of inspiration
 

Stevcho

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Jan 31, 2009
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Hi robou, i have just read your AAR in two 2 hour parts. And i must say i love it. Prussia is the country i have mostly played my humble part of vicky expirience...

I'm thrilled to see you doing so fine, and i love the style with witch you are writing it. I must add something though. Where there are peacetime updates i loved your first post where you had some ingame screenies about economy, what tech you are researching ,( like stock market and trip to USA that was great :rolleyes: ) and for instance the example of Junkers society or like when you bought Portorico, it would have been great if we saw the same thing for Callifornia.... So i was wondering if you could bring back something of that in your peacetime updates.
I don't think it will ruin your style the way you incorporated it very well in some of your earlier updates, and it might help some of us newer players know in what part of the game you are currently in. ;)

Anyways great AAR please do continue. You have my full support. :D